• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Gobrechts

Started by Tradedollarnut,

23 posts in this topic

Tradedollarnut

Tradedollarnut

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The reason this caught my interest is because I own the Norweb [hahaha - yes, it matches the plate] 1839 Gobrecht. It is Die Alignment IV with a perfect die. Under the old setup, this was considered a restrike. Under this person's theory, this coin is an original.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

I own an 1836 "on base" Gobrecht Dollar that is die alignment IV. It is in a PR-60 holder, but I grade it PR-50. The coin weights just short (0.2 grain) of 416 grains, which is the "old" silver dollar standard. So fair as I'm concerned the coin was struck at the 416 grain standard, and the tiny difference is due to wear.

 

I've seen other die alignment IV coins at coin shows, and virtually all of them were worn. I did not have a chance to weigh them, however.

 

What puzzles me is if the alignment IV coins were restrikes from the 1850s, why do so many of them show signs of wear or circulation? Other restrikes and patterns from the 1850s are seen in full Mint State (or Proof) fairly often because collectors preserved them. Assumming that one had to pay a premium for the restrikes to get them from the mint, why would they NOT be better preserved if the alignment IV coins are really restrikes from the 1850s?

 

Also did the mint really make that many restrikes in the 1850s? Wouldn't it logical to think thje restrike mintages were much lower and therefore there would be fewer coins today?

 

I agree with the theory that the alignment IV coins were made in March 1837. There are certainly a lot of them around in a relative sense and many of the them are worn which indicate that they may have been made in fairly large quanties for circulation just like the alignment I coins. I think that alignment II or III coins may the restrikes.

 

One other thing that I've noticed. Some of the alignment I coins that I have seen were weakly struck on the word "LIBERTY" on the shield. Could this metal flow problem have prompted the mint officials to experiment with the medal turn alignments? I've not seen enough coin turn pieces to say that it is a defininite characteristic of them. Perhaps others could comment.

 

I've not see large numbers of these coins. I'd like to see what others might think.

 

Thanks for reading my ramblings. 893applaud-thumb.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

I agree that the die alignment IV coins were likely struck in March, 1837 and are not restrikes from the 1850s. The coin that I have may be sent to NGC and I will ask them to weigh it for me, however, my coin saw circulation and so will not weigh up to the same standards as yours or other PF60 and above coins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hoot

Hoot

Posted
Posted

Nothing to add here but THANKS TDN and TomB for links to some GREAT articles. Amazing food for thought. I think, though, I'll have to take some advil with Keith. 893whatthe.gif Quite interesting to see a pic of a PF12 coin! The Gobrecht remains a dream coin for me. cloud9.gif

 

Hoot

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

There is nothing wrong with your coin, Tom. It just gives credence to the position of those who say that the Gobrechts were issued to used for circulation and that they WERE NOT patterns.

 

No silver dollars had been made for circulation for more than 30 years when the first Gobrecht Dollars were issued. The mint wanted to make them attractive to get them noticed AND they also wanted them to circulate as evidenced by the high mintages of 1,000 in 1836 and 600 more in 1837. During this period there were very few coin collectors in the United States. These coins were intended to circulate and the number of used pieces that are in numismatic circulation prove that. The only question is when were the various obverse vs. reverse combinations made? The debate continues ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LegendSteve-migration

LegendSteve-migration

Posted
Posted

I haven't read either of the two references to the uspatterns.com web site, so forgive me if I'm repeating something...

 

There are those who believe that the 36-dated NOB Gobs believed struck in 3/37 of alignment IV are like that because one of the dies were loose and slowly rotated after each striking until it ended up in the IV position. One Seated specialist told me that he has seen a spread of them (from 3/37) that go from alignment I to IV and degrees in between.

 

Steve

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shirohniichan

shirohniichan

Posted
Posted

Here's a tangent for you-- last night I sold a car to Christian Gobrecht's great-great grandson. The copy of the Gobrecht Journal I showed him was the one that discusses die alignments of 1838 and '39 dollars. I didn't ask for his autograph, though (except on the contracts).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Klectorkid

Klectorkid

Posted
Posted

Wow great looking Gobs Tom and Bill. I personally love the Gobrecht design and wish that they would have used it's reverse over the heraldic eagle type. I hope to one day own one half way as nice as yours Tom, nice and original, shows the main details well. Good reading. cloud9.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shirohniichan

shirohniichan

Posted
Posted
Did he pay with dollars of his namesake? smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif

 

Hoot

 

Nah, he brought a cashiers check. He had me copy the subscription information so he could join the LSCC. If you ever meet a new LSCC member named "Thomas Gobrecht," he's the guy. He told me he has "no stars" and "with stars" dollars framed and hanging on his office wall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing