Modern contemporary counterfeits?

[nwcs]

OK, we know there is a high seignorage on modern clad coins. A nice tidy profit for the mint. Also, most counterfeits are usually done of collectible coins these days. We know there are counterfeits of Sacagawea coins in South America, and that got me thinking. Well, that and watching the video on counterfeiting from the ANA last night again.

 

People aren't looking for counterfeits of average clad pieces. Like quarters. It seems that anyone with the equipment could make a convincing 1-1 transfer counterfeit of a common clad and then mint them in high numbers using basically the same procedures and metals that the mint does. People aren't looking for it and would probably accept it. Vending machines would probably accept it. And it would be a nice profit for each coin made.

 

So, why isn't it happening? Or is it?

 

And, no, I have no desire to counterfeit. I am not advocating counterfeiting. I am merely wondering about the possibility and how we, as numismatists, will recognize it if it actually DID happen.

 

Neil

[BillJones]

Despite the fact that the mint earns big seignorage from clad coins, I don't think that a counterfeiter could. There have been a few counterfeit quarters found in circulation, but the numbers have been small. No counterfeiter could ever profit from the economies of scale that the U.S. mint system enjoys.

 

First, the counterfeiter would have to duplicate the specific gravity to get the coins to fool vending machines. That involves engineering, equipment and design. To make it work, a counterfeiter would have to reach for large volume operation just like the mint. Otherwise the overhead would kill them.

 

Second, to have a long run, the counterfeiter would have to duplicate the clad layers. That would be expensive. If they did not do that, all the government would have to do would be to warn people to look at the rims of the coins. No copper core = no good.

 

Third the counterfeiter would have to make credible dies or molds. Once more – expensive.

 

Bottom line, there is just not enough money in counterfeiting quarters to make it worth while. The best denomination for that is and has been the old reliable $20 bill. That’s why the treasury changed the design on that one yet again after all of the new bills have now reached circulation. The $20 is valuable enough to duplicate yet small enough not to draw a lot of attention from those who accept it.

 

If you would like a historical example of an uneconomic counterfeiter, one need only look at the warning in a footnote in the Red Book about 1944 nickels without the large mint mark above Jefferson’s home on the reverse. Back in the mid 40s a guy from Camden, NJ produced a very good copy of the Jefferson Nickel. The one problem was that he used a 1944 nickel to make the obverse die and a 1938 nickel for the reverse. Net result – he made a variety of nickel that never existed, at least not from the government.

 

Even back then counterfeiting a nickel was viewed as an uneconomic move because one had to make and pass too many of them to turn a decent profit. Given inflation the same can be said for producing and passing counterfeit quarters today.

 

P.S. Just look at the company that made the "Arkansas (Bill Clinton X-rated)quarter." They took normal quarters and overstruck them with a die. Still to make money they had to charge dealers $5 a pop for the things, and they were not even manufacturing all of the materials.

 

[Architecht]

If you did counterfit quarters, I doubt the average counterfiter would get the die quite right. Thus I'd expect that there'd be alot of "error coins" being discovered (not just die cracks). Wouldn't that lead to them getting busted fairly quickly?

[Dermott]

They'd have to churn out so many quarters just to break even on the initial outlay of money to get the equipment and materials that they'd be almost assuredly busted LONG before breaking even.

[RobertB]

Maybe thats what all the clanging I hear from next door is?

 

 

 

 

seriously, I think it hard to hide an operation like what is required.