eBay Fraud or Find?

[notabene-migration]

Look at this recently completed auction:

1859 HALF DOLLAR NICE COIN FROM HUSBANDS ESTATE

 

Let's tally up the fraud factors versus the "amazing find" factors:

 

Fraud factors:

1. The coin pictured appears so flawless (especially the fields) that (based only on those pictures) it appears comparable in quality to the finest known 1859-O, an MS67 which went for $32,200 in 2003. (See ha.com for photos).

 

2. Anyone claiming to sell estate coins using all caps is suspect in my book. That it is allegedly her husband's estate seems designed to make you think this is the clueless widow who just wants to get rid of the useless coins she knows nothing about. (However, while this 1859-O is inaccurately called just an 1859, other listings, such as for the Morgans, even provide VAM variety. Where is the clueless widow getting all this identifying information about unslabbed/unholdered coins? Also, how is she so good at photographing them? While I'd like better photos, this is far better than most clueless sellers do on eBay--and better than many dealers manage. I have a heck of a time photographing coins!)

 

3. No refund policy and doesn't accept PayPal. Instead, check or money order is to be sent to a P.O. Box (allegedly because she's living alone and doesn't want to disclose the location of this collection.)

 

4. Currently just 71 feedbacks, member only since March 10, 2007.

 

5. History shows this seller purchased a coin. Why would a widow looking to get rid of coins also buy one?

 

Amazing find factors:

1. Those 71 feedbacks appear to be from a large number of different users, who themselves have made numerous purchases on eBay, so they seem somewhat unlikely to just be shill buyers to inflate her feedback numbers.

 

2. In correspondence she provided a working Yahoo! email address.

 

Where do you folks come out on weighing this one?

 

Additional questions to ponder:

A: Is this coin a fake or has it been cleaned to provide that remarkable appearance?

 

B: Anyone here willing to bid on an equally amazing looking 1826 bust half dollar?: See: 1826 BUST HALF DOLLAR FROM HUSBANDS ESTATE

 

C: Suppose this seller contacted you outside of eBay and asked you to make an offer on an equally amazing looking, but different half dollar from the 1850s. Would you make her an offer? If so, what would you do to protect yourself?

 

[edited to correct initial link]

[rbrown4]

For some reason the first link you have goes directly to a new post form. But I did get the other link to work and looked at all the coins she has for sale from this estate. There are a few key date coins, etc. quite an assortment including a 1932 D Washington Quarter and a 1934 S Peace Dollar. Based on the images some of these coins are not in the best condition, but the no return policy and lack of quality of the images would turn me away.

 

Rey

[notabene-migration]

Rey, thanks for catching the problem with that first link. It should now be fixed.

[construct]

It may not be a total fraud. You might get the coin pictured, but what would you get? The pictures are so bright that you can't tell anything about the coin except the date/mm.

 

I would not even think for one moment about bidding on one of those auctions.

[WoodenJefferson]

Possibilities:

 

1.) Her late husband may have already catalogued all the coins listing varities/VAM’s etc. and she is merely relaying the information into the auction.

 

2.) Her late husband may have already photo’ed said coins before his demise and she is merely taking them off hard drive/disk as she puts them up for sale.

 

3.) The coin in question is not the only coin that has been whizzed/polished at one time in it’s lifetime. I noted a few others that already sold had that silver polish look.

 

4.) The coin this seller bought an 1853 Arrows & Rays was heavily cleaned as denoted by the seller as:

1853 Arrows and Rays Seated Half Dollar

EF, harshly cleaned (whizzed).

Purchased to resell at a later date or already been re-sold and has not yet been updated.

 

5.) Nothing wrong about being “up front” about returns, this is a high risk auction and she is advising to bid accordingly.

 

Of course, this is all speculation and nothing concrete is available to say one way or the other. The coin in question (1859) has been polished to a high sheen..too bad. Hopefully we will not see it back on the market with a nice tone.

 

Yes, anytime I see the word ESTATE I immediately think, yeah right. Only the State Comptrollers offices in varying states that sell on e-bay are known legitimate estate sale auctions. (mostly unclaimed safety deposit box contents)

 

This could very well be a male person posing as a widowed female in order to deceive potential buyers, lulling them into a “your gonna rip me” transaction. The truth may never be told…e-bay can conceal many elements of a persons identity and methods.

 

No, I would never enter into a transaction outside of e-bay with an unknown seller. I don’t care what they are selling, it’s just not safe…period.

 

[conqueror]

I was looking at her feedbacks and other information and fine this seller to be trusted. She did a little homework on coins for sure, which is why I think she bought that one coin. Few month ago there was a seller on ebay (Blindman something out of Phily) who sold slab gold and highend raw coins at a lost. Within few weeks he had a large following of bidders, and I see the samething in her auction.

 

John

[WoodenJefferson]

I was looking at her feedbacks and other information and fine this seller to be trusted. She did a little homework on coins for sure, which is why I think she bought that one coin. Few month ago there was a seller on ebay (Blindman something out of Phily) who sold slab gold and highend raw coins at a lost. Within few weeks he had a large following of bidders, and I see the samething in her auction.

 

John

 

A few years ago this lady found a shoe box full of stamps in a chest in her attic. So said the auction listing: She went on to say that she knew her late husband collected stamps but knew nothing about them.

 

I happened in on the first few auction lots as she listed them about 2 every weeks...when I got the first batch there was like $300-$400 worth of stamps I got for about $20 bucks. I got two more lots until the bidding was like a shark feeding frenzie...had we not given outstanding feedback there would not have been as many buyers wanting in on this great find.

 

I even e-mailed here several times to increase her starting prices or cut back on the number of stamps offered per lot or even get someone who knows about stamps to list them for her. She never did and gave away thousands of dollars in value.

 

Things like this do happen on e-bay.

[notabene-migration]

Possibilities:

 

1.) Her late husband may have already catalogued all the coins listing varities/VAM’s etc. and she is merely relaying the information into the auction.

 

That's possible.

 

2.) Her late husband may have already photo’ed said coins before his demise and she is merely taking them off hard drive/disk as she puts them up for sale.

 

I think I have evidence this is probably NOT what happened. The coin this seller offered to sell me off of eBay appears to be the very 1853 Arrows and Rays (harshly cleaned/whizzed) that this seller bought. The pictures provided via e-mail look identical to the style of the other auction photos. So I think these photos are fairly recent, not the work of anyone who allegedly died a few months back.

 

3.) The coin in question is not the only coin that has been whizzed/polished at one time in it’s lifetime. I noted a few others that already sold had that silver polish look.

 

4.) The coin this seller bought an 1853 Arrows & Rays was heavily cleaned as denoted by the seller as:

1853 Arrows and Rays Seated Half Dollar

EF, harshly cleaned (whizzed).

Purchased to resell at a later date or already been re-sold and has not yet been updated.

 

Compare the coin this seller bought:

1853 Half that Seller Bought

with the coin I was offered outside of eBay:

(Attached at end of message.)

 

5.) Nothing wrong about being “up front” about returns, this is a high risk auction and she is advising to bid accordingly.

 

Of course, this is all speculation and nothing concrete is available to say one way or the other. The coin in question (1859) has been polished to a high sheen..too bad. Hopefully we will not see it back on the market with a nice tone.

 

Yes, anytime I see the word ESTATE I immediately think, yeah right. Only the State Comptrollers offices in varying states that sell on e-bay are known legitimate estate sale auctions. (mostly unclaimed safety deposit box contents)

 

This could very well be a male person posing as a widowed female in order to deceive potential buyers, lulling them into a “your gonna rip me” transaction. The truth may never be told…e-bay can conceal many elements of a persons identity and methods.

 

No, I would never enter into a transaction outside of e-bay with an unknown seller. I don’t care what they are selling, it’s just not safe…period.

 

Agreed.

[just-john]

I think her late husband own a small casting company in China.I don't like the edges on most of her coins look cast

[Keleum]

The seller is awfully eBay saavy to not have a paypal account, I can't say there's many widows in my family that would know, to set up a PO Box, create an eBay account, and call out in their listing no refunds, for their husband's coin collections.

 

Buy the coin, not the seller, slab or auction house.