Please help with Spanish colonial coin identification

[JadeRareCoin]

Hey guys,

 

I received an email today from someone requesting help in identifying a coin. It looks like a Spanish colonial 8 reale, but this is not my area of expertise and I am lacking in reference material. Could it be a Mexico City Mint 8 reale? What's the date? Do you guys happen to know the assayer for this particula piece?

 

Beyond identifying the date and mint, I am suspicious of this coin's authenticity, even though I am going strictly on images. It just doesn't look right. Could it be a cast copy? I handled about 20 Potosi Mint cobs within the past year, but that's about the extent of my cob experience.

 

Thanks, Dennis

[JadeRareCoin]

Here's the image of the reverse (as an attached file).........

 

Thanks in advance for your help. Dennis - Jade Coin

 

[TomB]

You may want to send DaveG a message about this piece as I believe he has quite a bit of knowledge in this particular area. Good luck.

[JadeRareCoin]

Thanks Tom!

[DaveG]

Dennis,

 

The design looks about right (from what I can remember), but unfortunately, my Spanish colonial references only go back to the 18th century, so I can't positively identify it.

 

Sorry,

 

Dave

[truthteller]

Looks more like Venezuela, Province of Caracas. coinage. Date is 711 which is a older system of dating coinage prior to 1816. Look up Krause, Venezuela.1700-1800.

 

TRUTH

[JadeRareCoin]

Thanks Truthteller and others. That's the only Krause that I don't have. I think we have a copy in our St. Louis office, but I will probably pick one up at the new coin show. Thanks again.

[JadeRareCoin]

Hi Truthteller,

 

I had a copy of Krause 1700-1800 in my library and I didn't even know it! Shows how often I deal with these types of coins. I could not find Venezuela in the catalog. Was the country a different name in that era? I didn't think so. I also look in other South American countries but could not find anything even close to the design. Could this coin be 1711? Or......could it be from the 1600's? Any clues??

 

Thanks, Dennis

[spiny]

Dennis, it looks a lot like the 1711 Peru 8 Escudos, except that coin is supposed to be gold...

[JadeRareCoin]

Spiny,

 

EXCELLENT WORK!!!!! You are correct. That is the coin in question. I am not so sure why the images make the coin look grey.....that's just the way the images were received.

 

I received one additional image that makes the coin look gold (see attachment above).

 

In addition, I was told that the coin was "heavy", and the owner thought that it was gold or brass. She is not a coin collector. My first reaction was "this is a counterfeit coin". The details seem fuzzy and it just does not look right. But in all fairness, I specialize in early American coinage and know very little about foreign coins.

 

My suspicion was partially fueled by the origin of the coin: Eastern Europe (Albania). It was brought to the US by a student who is studying here. I know that Eastern Europe is infamous for counterfeiting of all sorts, so I usually raise an eyebrow when presented with a coin from that region.

 

I will ask to see the coin in person so that I can weigh it. It should be 0.7980 oz. If it looks to be okay, I will have the coin submitted to NGC for certification/grading and I will post the results here.

 

Thanks to everyone for your help! I love this forum!

[spiny]

Cool! It sounds like a longshot for being authentic, but best of luck with it. Also, if you hadn't caught it already, the .7980 oz is the actual gold weight. The total weight for the coin is listed as 27.0674 grams.

[JadeRareCoin]

Well, I finally got to see the "coin" in person. As soon as she handed it to me, I said "opps....it's a counterfeit". It just had that cheap "toy-like" feel and the weight was obviously off. It is a cast counterfeit, probably made from a real 8 Escudos host coin. I put it on the scale and it came in at 8.4 grams, as opposed to 27 grams. Waaaaayyyy under weight.

 

Since this "coin" is from Peru, do you think that Spiny will trade it for his 1863 Peru 1 Centavo coin? Hey, you could sell this on eBay and make $5,000!

 

I scanned the coin just for fun. See attachment!

[spiny]