800$ ++++

[ant]

i was doing bank books and such and found out some very disturbing news! i have sent in around 1500$ worth of grading in moderns plus more on 1955-below.just in moderns i have lost 800$+ in body bagged coins.THATS JUST THE MODERNS! thats roughly half of money spent!

 

due to this i will not be sending in raws but just buying slabbed.

 

has any1 else figured what they have lost in bbed coins? and how do you feel on this issue?

[MikeInFL]

I feel that if I want a coin in a holder, I buy it that way.

 

Now if I were concerned about the saleability of the coin, I would consider getting it holdered, but otherwise, I see no good reason to send a coin to a TPG...Mike

 

p.s. if you're getting less than 50% of your submissions slabbed, I think its time for you to slow up in submitting coins and/or have someone more experienced than you view your coins prior to submitting them.

[James_OldeTowne]

I think that every genuine and inert coin sent in for a grade should come back in a slab, regardless of how it is graded or non-graded. You are paying for a grade AND a slab! The "body-bag" policy is one of my biggest beefs with the industry, and is a big reason why I've submitted fewer than five of my own coins ever for certification.

[ant]

thats the problem not even the dealers know what will pass anymore like my 1847 1c corenet. it is 150yrs old and wont grade due to a few spots of corosion on it and they are prety small spots. i even had some one say that an old coin cant even have dirt on it,but yet it will get bagged for being cleaned if i clean it.

 

i may start sending into anacs so i can get what i pay for. at anacs they slab cleaned coins and give net grade! now thats a deal! i dont care about sellability ! i just care if the said coin is safe from other damage!

 

i feel they could be in a bad mood or overwhelmed in work and just body bag coins so they dont have to grade.or to catch up!

 

either way 800+ for mylar flips and shipping is rediculious!!

 

 

[Keleum]

Is there a reason you didn't use NCS? I noticed they have a 1% fee to evaluate the coin and a 3% fee for conservation, and an option to grade it or not. They will grade and slab no-grade coins or send it to be graded if its not a problem coin. It costs a bit more, but it's a guaranteed slab.

 

Is there some catch here, I'm not seeing.

[TomB]

Your bag rate is astonishingly high and would make me think that you should see quite a few more coins before sending anything else to the TPGs. I have submitted perhaps 100-150 coins to PCGS and NGC (primarily PCGS) over the last fourteen years and have received six (?) bagged coins. However, all the bagged coins, save for one, were slabbed when I explained to the TPG why they were original.

[MikeInFL]

Your bag rate is astonishingly high and would make me think that you should see quite a few more coins before sending anything else to the TPGs. I have submitted perhaps 100-150 coins to PCGS and NGC (primarily PCGS) over the last fourteen years and have received six (?) bagged coins. However, all the bagged coins, save for one, were slabbed when I explained to the TPG why they were original.

 

Tom, Very interesting. Would you please share one of these coins and the explanation that convinced the TPG? I was under the (mis)impression that a TPG grades coins blind, and they couldn't be "convinced". Thanks in advance...Mike

 

p.s. my apologies to the OP for the tanget...

[dooly]

getting less and less BB now thanks to this forum and learning lessons on the BB coins recived.. i am lucky that i do not send coins for profit,(not saying i have money to through away either)..

 

as for buying them slabbed well some of the coins i am after are very low population or non at all so i have no other option but to keep banging away and hopeing i get the grades i am after..

 

What is worse for me is getting so good picky that have sent only 4 coins in for grading from the last 30 1971 proof sets i have purchaced.

 

and i am lucky that i am still getting a buzz submiting raw coins and waiting for the grades to be posted. hope i dont loose it ! (thumbs u

[TomB]

One coin was an original Lexington commem that was removed from the pine box of issue and sent to PCGS. They bagged the coin as PVC damage when in reality the thick, green coating was from that acids that leach out of the pine box that the coin had been housed in for 70+ years. I explained this to the graders in a letter that was sent directly to a customer service rep, who will remain nameless. The customer service rep had told me that a customer service rep would first read letters sent to PCGS and then the condensed version would be verbally shared with the graders. The coin arrived in the mail in a PCGS MS65 holder after my explanation.

[lkenefic]

ant...I wouldn't feel so bad about the 1847 copper piece. Circulated copper is pretty tough and I'm geting a feel that most EAC people prefer their coppers raw anyway. I think I've probably spent about that much purchasing *spoon* copper ... coming to the realization of what I had... and then getting hammered when I sold it. I wish it would have been a steeper learning curve but at least I've come to the point where I am today...STILL LEARNING!!!

 

I have to agree with one of the other posters though... if you want certified and slabbed pieces you should buy them from the outset. I'll even go one further and drag out one of my recent experiences with a certain $5 gold piece. First off, I don't know much about gold. Second off, it was my own hubris that lead me to believe I could cross a piece that I knew absolutely nothing about! Fortunately, there are members on this board that know much more than I [Thank you...TomB] and I ended up spending not much more than I would have had just bought a $5 gold piece already in NGC plastic at the same grade.

[BillJones]

I feel that if I want a coin in a holder, I buy it that way.

 

Now if I were concerned about the saleability of the coin, I would consider getting it holdered, but otherwise, I see no good reason to send a coin to a TPG...Mike

 

p.s. if you're getting less than 50% of your submissions slabbed, I think its time for you to slow up in submitting coins and/or have someone more experienced than you view your coins prior to submitting them.

 

I'm pretty much with you, Mike. I buy the coin in the slab and often avoid sending anything in for grading.

 

Yes, there is money to be made in the slab submission game. A good part of it comes from grade-flation. I admit that I’ve been a recipient of a bit of that situation a few times. In those cases I blew the coin off to a dealer at a discount. I would never sell over graded material like that to a retail customer.

 

I also agree with James' comment about no slabs for a fee paid. NGC could improve its customer relations if it put body bagged coins into NCS holders if they did not qualify for NGC holders. It would not hurt them to do that, and it would divert some ill will among customers.

 

If I get a body bag, there is no way in hell that I’m sending that coin in for a NCS holder. And those double for unwarranted body bags that reflect instances with the grader did not feel like doing his job that day. And YES NGC I’ve had coins get body bags from you and grades from PCGS. AND I’ve had coins get body bags from PCGS and grades from NGC. Would anyone care to speculate on who made the mistakes here? So don’t bother to give me a lecture about how dumb I am when it comes to grading. None of us are perfect.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

One coin was an original Lexington commem that was removed from the pine box of issue and sent to PCGS. They bagged the coin as PVC damage when in reality the thick, green coating was from that acids that leach out of the pine box that the coin had been housed in for 70+ years.

Ah, yes, one of my all-time favorite commems when originally boxed! I'm hoping you kept the box, but if you don't want it, I'm a buyer!

[BillJones]

One coin was an original Lexington commem that was removed from the pine box of issue and sent to PCGS. They bagged the coin as PVC damage when in reality the thick, green coating was from that acids that leach out of the pine box that the coin had been housed in for 70+ years.

Ah, yes, one of my all-time favorite commems when originally boxed! I'm hoping you kept the box, but if you don't want it, I'm a buyer!

 

Funny, I get stuck with a PCGS coin that had REAL PVC on it. I will admit that I messed up when I bought the coin and took $110 hit it when I blew it off to a dealer. I guess the PCGS grader and I both missed it or perhaps they net graded it. Aside for the PVC, the coin looked like an MS-63 in an MS-62 holder. And yes the one point difference represented a significant price difference.

[ant]

i have 3 shops that deal in coins here and it seems as tho either they dont know jack or im getting beet up at grading. i would agree that i dont know much but on most cases i take to all 3 dealers here to see what they say. one dealer wont take anything ngc anymore due to bbed coins.

and all the good coins have to be perfect just to get a vf grade. i would send to pcgs but they are in the same lets get free body bag money boat! and ncs is in the pocket of ngc so i wont send to them.

 

the corosion is what got me the worst! a 150 yr old piece of metal cant show signs of corosion when metal is corosive in just about any surounding.also the fact that they "made there own rules" when the 06 sae came out. ms70 is top but they said we can see into the future and nothing will get a 70! now they change it so people will send in there coins again and pay for double grading! WHAT A JOKE!

[BankNote1]

If you have a 50% or more body bag rate you need to get your eyes checked or buy a better loupe! I don't send a large amount of coins in for grading but I don't send in anything that I don't feel will grade or upgrade. I have received a few bb's but only one or two a year at most. If I have a questionable coin I send it to NCS. NCS has saved me a ton of money over the years!!! Most of the time NCS can fix the problem with the coin and I get it back in a NGC holder!

I do have two coins coming back from PCGS that they bb'ed. I am sure one or both of the coins will be on the way to NCS in the near future. I am not surprised or angry that the coins are bb'ed I just want to see what I overlooked when I sent them to PCGS.

What I don't understand is why Ant thinks a coin with corrosion should be slabed by NGC or PCGS?? Even if the coin is 500 years old it shouldn't be slabed if it is corroded! I don't understand why the piece wasn't sent to NCS to begin with. Heck that is why NCS was created in the first place.

[zrlevin]

I've only ever sent one coin in. I'm batting 1000

 

I crack out more than I send in.

[just carl]

I'm lost on this subject. I can see a TPG body bagging a coin if counterfeited but for all other items they should be graded and slabbed. I've seen some slabs with coins graded as AG-4, not sure of the TPG. So why not coins with rust, corrosion, dirt, burns, whatever. Just put it on the slab. For example a 1979 half dollar with dents, scratches, PVC, dust, should be slabbed and say all that. If you pay to have it graded and slabbed, so then they all should do just that. My opinion is regardless of what you send to them and pay them, they should do thier jobs. Even if a FAKE, state FAKE on the slab. If I sent in a coin and it was a piece of junk and I paid a TPG service to grade it and slab it they should do that and if they want, print JUNK on the slab. I

If I paid a auto place to paint my car with purple and orange stripes and said I'd pay for it they would do it regardless of what the end results would be.

LIke I said I don't get the entire body bag stuff.

[xJack]

If you're not hitting 50%, you need some assistance or more experience with TPG's. Your grading might be dead on, but you're missing problems or cleaning somehow. I've been submitting to PCGS/NGC for about 15 years; lots and lots of coins, many of them modern. I don't always like the numbers they put on, but I can 90-95% keep the BB coins out.

 

The bag rate on moderns should be substantially lower than classics, unless you're specifying unrealistic minimum grades on the invoices or need help identifying cleaning/problems.

 

If your local dealers are unreliable, then try other ways. If you have friends who you collect with, grade each other's coins before sending them off, it's a fun way to talk about coins, and "betting" on the TPG grade can be a lot fun. Bragging rights!

 

If you're sentimental about the coin, you're probably going to be disappointed at either the BB or the numerical grade they give it. Having someone else scrutinize your stuff is a bit tough, but will give you experience and save you money.

 

Also, I _don't_ feel that a TPG should be required to mark PVC, cleaned, counterfeit, etc. on a holder.

 

I look for NGC and PCGS coins when considering slabs because it narrows down the field of vision, especially if I'm looking for a quality piece that has a 90%-ish chance of being market acceptable. If I'm looking to fill an album or set, then I look everywhere and raw as well.

 

If you're looking for a relatively "safe" coin in a specific grade, then you know where to look. If you don't mind filtering swill, trap coins and problems for potential candidates (and possible hits), then you also know where to look.

 

I __DO__ agree that for the money you paid, you should have the option of NGC BB coins getting NCS holders.

 

:twocents:

[Keleum]

From the NCS website:

 

Authentication and Encapsulation, Under this service, NCS numismatists will authenticate, attribute varieties, identify mint errors and encapsulate most coins, tokens and medals.

 

Details Grading and Encapsulation, Under this service level, coins with irreversible detrimental surface conditions or damage (commonly known as "problem" or "no grade" coins) will be authenticated, given a Details grade and encapsulated by NCS.

 

Any item submitted for NCS details grading that is suitable for non-problem coin grading will be transferred to NCS's official grading service for non-problem coin grading on behalf of the submitter.

 

In my simpleton little mind, for an additional 1% of value of the coin you don't have to worry about BB's, you'll get it in a slab, hopefully graded. Obviously an NCS slab is not worth much to a dealer and may even reduce the value, but for the rest of us. Why not?

[halfpint]

I'm lost on this subject. I can see a TPG body bagging a coin if counterfeited but for all other items they should be graded and slabbed. I've seen some slabs with coins graded as AG-4, not sure of the TPG. So why not coins with rust, corrosion, dirt, burns, whatever. Just put it on the slab. For example a 1979 half dollar with dents, scratches, PVC, dust, should be slabbed and say all that. If you pay to have it graded and slabbed, so then they all should do just that. My opinion is regardless of what you send to them and pay them, they should do thier jobs. Even if a FAKE, state FAKE on the slab. If I sent in a coin and it was a piece of junk and I paid a TPG service to grade it and slab it they should do that and if they want, print JUNK on the slab. I

If I paid a auto place to paint my car with purple and orange stripes and said I'd pay for it they would do it regardless of what the end results would be.

LIke I said I don't get the entire body bag stuff.

 

 

very good point. this wold be a great post for the 'ask ngc' forum.

 

steve

[halfpint]

 

hello ant!

just a suggestion that may have been mentioned before that may help cut down on bb's.

take some detailed pics, put 'em on the forum, and let us help you make the call to submit. it's just a suggestion and it's one that i will do some day myself..............as soon as i learn how to take pics!

 

steve

[lkenefic]

I'm lost on this subject. I can see a TPG body bagging a coin if counterfeited but for all other items they should be graded and slabbed. I've seen some slabs with coins graded as AG-4, not sure of the TPG. So why not coins with rust, corrosion, dirt, burns, whatever. Just put it on the slab. For example a 1979 half dollar with dents, scratches, PVC, dust, should be slabbed and say all that. If you pay to have it graded and slabbed, so then they all should do just that. My opinion is regardless of what you send to them and pay them, they should do thier jobs. Even if a FAKE, state FAKE on the slab. If I sent in a coin and it was a piece of junk and I paid a TPG service to grade it and slab it they should do that and if they want, print JUNK on the slab. I

If I paid a auto place to paint my car with purple and orange stripes and said I'd pay for it they would do it regardless of what the end results would be.

LIke I said I don't get the entire body bag stuff.

 

But isn't this what ANACS already does? If the coin has no qualifiers they just assign it a grade. If it's damaged, nicked, corroded, cleaned, or whatever, they just put the qualifier on the slab and assign it a net grade. I see your point though. Perhaps all TPGs should take this tack and just net-grade every piece that's sent in that would normally be bb'd. Additionally, I see some utility in getting counterfeits out of the market by slabbing them and labelling them as fake pieces. I know of several people that collect counterfeits as a side-light to their regular collections. If it was me,I'd want those particular coins segregated and labeled as "counterfeit" to avoid any confusion after I go to the "Big Bourse Floor In The Sky", L

[ant]

i have posted many of coins for all too see and everytime i do its"it is dirty,it is nicked,it has finger prints.....IT WONT GRADE". i have sent in coins that were in government packaging that got bagged! i just dont get it! how can a old coin NOT be coroded or damaged in some way.

 

even the coins the usa is puting out are trash and they have the gull to bb my original old stuff! i even asked for a rim view for a cbh and they said "only the prez coins will get those" when the originals are what started the design.

 

everything is just money now to people and it seems that the collectables are getting shoved aside for these new trashy coins!

 

and again making up and changing grading process for there own needs is also horable.sae not getting a 70 due to in future they wont be 70s is a joke! then they change back charging again.when all those coins should be regraded for free. then most dont even change and they get the second payment also!