EliteCollection

I have not seen the Bass in person. People who have seen it tell me that it's overgraded and that my 68 CAC is just as good if not better than the Bass 69.

Btw, if you are on MyCollect, you can find me. My username is Elite.

I'm not displaying the 1933 DE this time because it's not part of the PCGS main set and I think this set is impressive enough. Maybe next time!

On 6/11/2023 at 9:38 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

  Congrats to EC:

https://coinweek.com/finest-set-of-saint-gaudens-double-eagles-at-ana-show/

Thanks! I hope you can come to the ANA to check it out.

On 1/3/2023 at 12:50 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

A 1910-D MS-66+ CAC is for sale over on GC.....label says "Elite"......EC, I presume that is your coin ?

Are you in possession of or seeking a coin of higher value for registry points ?  

Yes, that's my coin. I already have one with a higher grade. So selling my duplicates.

Tom Koessl built this amazing set over a few decades, so it's referred to as the Koessl Matte Proof Set. Even though I now own the set, I will likely always refer to it as the Koessl set and will keep the Koessl slab and label as they are amazing.

As far as the certs go, Koessl's attention to detail went as far as getting PCGS to give him custom cert numbers in the format 00DDYYYY, where DD is the denomination and YYYY is the year. 00051912 for a 1912 $5 and 00201915 for a 1915 $20. 

On 7/12/2022 at 7:58 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

What defines "complete" I guess is in the registry keepers definition.  Cleary, the 1933 is a coin but with only 1 available (for now ) it's essentually uncollectable.  The next rarest Saint has at least 10-12 speciments available (the 1927-D) so while it is tough it is not impossible.

If for whatever reason you decided to keep the 1933 and give it to your heirs, EC, then NOBODY could have a "complete set" of Saints.  I guess the registry people didn't want to create that conundrum. 

A lot of registry sets include unique coins. They sometimes even include coins that only exist in the Smithsonian. So that's not a good reason not to include the 1933 with the Saints sets. The reason why it's not included in the PCGS set registry is likely because at the time PCGS set registry was created (2001), none of the 1933 saints were legal to own. This 1933 wasn't monetized until 2002. Stuart Weitzman didn't collect other coins, so it didn't matter to him. I might petition PCGS to include the 1933 with the other Saints sets, but I bet it will be quite political because it's going to make it impossible for anyone else to beat my sets. But I am trying to be the #1 set without including my 1933 Saint, so that this is a moot point.

So the 1933 is a coin, but it's not part of the complete set of Saints.

He's been selling part of his collection over the years. He recently decided to sell his saints. Almost 1/2 of his saints are listed in preview state. You can see the first one here: https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/a-written-description-will-be-available-soon/p/1348-12040.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Preview-ThisAuction-120115
Just click on the next one in the list to see the next ones.

Simpson is selling his set of saints in the Heritage August sale! Here's his 27D: https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/double-eagles/coming-soon-pcgs-9187-/p/1348-12048.s

On 7/4/2022 at 2:21 PM, Cat Bath said:

Judd 1776 PR

Sadly it's not this one. 

On 5/25/2022 at 1:39 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I want to see the 1933 in the holder. 

On 5/25/2022 at 2:47 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

comprimising his ability to get the coins he wants

I already got all the coins I want. I don't need any more. 

On 5/25/2022 at 1:15 PM, Cat Bath said:

Hope you can make yours public again but I understand dealers like to price gouge when they see you might want a particular coin.

Yup, exactly. I will make it public again soon.

On 5/25/2022 at 10:37 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I think that was true at one time, but I think the gap has closed.  PCGS has been the subject of multiple criticisms even at the CU/PCGS forums -- with threads disappearing and individuals suspended/banned.  Some of the worst examples of gradeflation have been in recent years involving PCGS and small-denomination coins (not gold or Saints).

I will say this about our NGC hosts:  they tolerate criticism.  They don't go bonkers at the first mention of not liking their grading. 

I think that will benefit them in the long-run.  Granted, I don't have to worry about registry points or re-sale of pricey coins, but I like what I have seen in recent years from NGC on the grading, holder, and label fronts.

I actually like the modern NGC holders that I bought some modern coins in.  Nice holders....the 4-prong holder is nice.....good-looking, informative color labels, too.

I will go to your registery to see what the 1933 looks like in the current holder.  I don't believe I have seen it.

Understood.  Not a registry player so I never followed these rules but I understand it's a 1-way street with PCGS.

Really ?  Did you re-submit many of them or did you simply only buy PCGS ?

It may be true that NGC is better now and PCGS definitely has overgraded coins. But with a lot more overgraded NGC coins out there, the market is paying less for NGC coins. But of course that's not everything. I like my collection to look the same, so I've stuck with PCGS and only buy PCGS coins.

On 5/25/2022 at 10:08 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Just curious...any thought to putting it into an NGC holder ? 

I mean, for such a unique coin, I don't think you need worry about any premium or discount upon resale (if ever sold). 

It was never a consideration for many reasons:

- PCGS graders are generally stricter and leads to higher resale value

- PCGS holders look better in my opinion

- I use the PCGS set registry and they only accept PCGS graded coins

- All my coins are in PCGS holders, so it will be out of place

Both PCGS and NGC went to see the coin at Sotheby's and graded the coin MS 65 outside of the holder, which is very rare. And John Albanese also saw it and said he would sticker it at MS 65 if it was ever holdered. After I won, I sent it into PCGS and then CAC. It's now in a PCGS MS 65 CAC holder. https://www.coinnews.net/2021/07/28/pcgs-encapsulates-legendary-1933-saint-gaudens-double-eagle/

On 5/24/2022 at 11:48 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Would love to hear EC's thoughts on the gash in the leg.  Of course, defects or no defects, it's still the only legal 1933 Saint out there. 

Beggars can't be choosey. 

Yeah, she took a tumble down the stairs and got a huge gash. But in the end, it doesn't matter. The 1933 DE is unique and John Albanese likes it. 

I would assume they would grade every coin and send them to CAC before the auction.

On 5/10/2022 at 7:46 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

that's a MAJOR addition at the ASG or thereabouts that no other team can match via a trade.

ASG only stands for one thing in this thread and it's not the all star game.

On 5/9/2022 at 9:11 PM, VKurtB said:

It is now 2022 and I’d be totally okay with those coins being seized. 

If they really want them back, the best move would be to pay market value for them. Just have the US mint print a bunch more $100 bills. 

The difference between the 1933 DE and the 1928 coins or 1913 nickels is that the government has always (or at least soon after the coins got out) considered the 1933 DE illegal and went after every instance of the coin they can find. It's an embarrassment for the government to have any 1933 DE out there. For the bag of 1928 and the 5 1913 nickels, these coins were traded legally for so long that it wouldn't make sense to go after the current owners. Whereas, each owner of the 1933 DEs all know that their coin's legality is questionable.

On 5/9/2022 at 8:14 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

The UHR is probably my favorite Saint, I appreciate the rarity of the 1927-D and mythology surrounding the 1933, but let's be honest:  they're pretty blah-looking compared to some of the other coins in the series.

Yup, that's pretty much true for a lot of other ultra rarities, the 1913 liberty nickel looks just like every other liberty nickel except for the date, but it's 10,000x the price of the same grade 1912 liberty nickel. Same goes for the 1804 dollar or the 1894-S dime. 

On 5/9/2022 at 8:39 PM, RWB said:

No 1933 DE were ever reported or accounted as missing, neither was their any shortage of melt weight. Hence, there was no reason to check this or any other authentic gold coins made in 1933 or before.

So it was likely a coin for coin exchange, either (A) illegally by a mint employee maybe even right before a bag of 1933 coins were melted or (B) over the counter and accidentally exchanged. One can argue whether or not the coins should be legal if (B). The government can still claim it was a mistake and want to correct it. But as @VKurtBsaid, all 1933 coins passed through the hands of Swift, so that makes (B) highly unlikely. Occam's razor suggests that the simplest answer is A, which makes these 1933 DEs illegal.

Anyways, no need to rehash this same argument. I'm not going to convince you guys and you're not going to convince me. Agree to disagree? 

On 5/9/2022 at 6:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Well, I trust you are wealthy enough that if the coins ever were released (and all you need is a numismatist judge or someone in the Executive Branch to alter the facts-in-evidence), that the hit wouldn't hurt you.

I'm not looking to turn around and sell the coin anytime soon, so I'm not that concerned. If indeed that happens, this coin still has a unique history. And this certificate of monetization says it's the only 1933 lawfully issued by the US Mint. That's got to be worth something, right? 

On 5/9/2022 at 7:38 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

"tie should go to the runner"

Unfortunately, in this case tie goes to the government. The 1933 coin was never released to the public. If it was, it was either a mistake or illegally. So I take that back about every 1933 being illegal. If it was a mistake, the government can correct that mistake. They should have exchanged the coin for another DE. Just like if the IRS made a mistake and gave me a bigger tax refund, they can ask for it back. Anyways, you are right, there's not enough evidence either way. So we all have our take on what is right.

On 5/9/2022 at 7:38 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

certainly most numismatists believe they should have been legal to trade

Probably true but that's the same as "most people want to pay less tax". Numismatists of course want to be able to get their hands on more 1933 DEs. What I can tell you is that I thought the government was justified to confiscate the 1933 DEs. That was my opinion even before I purchased the Farouk one. 

On 5/9/2022 at 6:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Repeat your name for us, again.....

Elite Collection will be just fine. 

On 5/9/2022 at 6:01 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I'm not a registry follower so I wouldn't know anything about your "Elite Collection" though your coins listed certainly are.

Here you go: https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/20-gold-major-sets/st-gaudens-20-gold-major-varieties-1933-patterns-1907/360