imnotaminion

On 4/11/2024 at 10:30 PM, Coinbuf said:

It would make a nice album coin, there is already some minor spotting and discoloration due to circulation so not one that should be considered for submission to a TPG for grading.   I would second the idea of an acetone bath to remove any finger oils and other contaminates that may still be on the coin.

It is my understanding that acetone should not be used on cooper. Also and unfortunately, my hands are not as steady as I'd like. But this coin is DDO & DDR which makes it worthy for submission. Also, since 2017 I have purchased two uncirculated products from the US mint, and in comparison i suspects my penny is in uncirculated condition.

And while reminiscing YouTube grades & eBay postings & sells, I will submit my 1993 Phili for grading.

This is one of my Pocket change finds.

On 8/18/2021 at 11:50 PM, GBrad said:

Welcome to the forum Robert.  Have you calibrated your new scale? Does it weigh out to Hundredths such as 0.00?  The Lincoln Cent is one of the lightest coins the U.S. Mint ever produced.  In this day and time you will probably find MANY more Lincoln Cents weighing in the 2.4 to 2.7 range because of the new (since 1982) Zinc cored Lincoln Cents.  Those made prior to 1982 (and even some in 1982, which was the transitional year for the metal composition of the Lincoln Cent) will be made of predominantly copper which will weigh in the 3.11 gram range. It makes perfect sense that you have seen less than 5 pennies weighing 3.11 grams out of hundreds because copper Cents are a thing of the past, unfortunately.

Your 1990 Cent is not supposed to have a mint mark.  The only Lincoln Cent ever produced with a Philly (P) mint mark was in 2017. Your 1990 Cent is what is referred to as a Zincoln Cent because it is predominately made of zinc as explained above. Make sure your scale is calibrated correctly and then weigh your coins.  This is the best advice I can give.  

This scale calibrates on power cycle. But I'll have to do a manual calibration. So true that "small date & large date; zinc/2.50g & copper/3.11g" 1982 Cents are a phenomena, but are now in abundance. And the Philadelphia Mint does not mint Lincoln Cents. I do suspect at some point a P planchet may show on the Shield Cents?

Which transition 1982 cent would you say is the rarest?

On 8/18/2021 at 7:59 PM, RWB said:

Cents are not weighed individually - the reported weight is an average. Only when the average is out of tolerance is a change made.

I think you are really asking: What are the weight ranges for a copper coated zinc cent, and 95% copper 5% zinc cent.

YES-YES-YES!🤣/a "When Harry Met Sally" moment. That's exactly what I'm thinking. Thank you "RWB".

On 8/18/2021 at 7:23 PM, Conder101 said:

Well the MINIMUM tolerance weight for a copper cent is 2.98 grams so I would say somewhere around 2.8  That would be about .2 grams out of spec heavy for a zinc, and about .2 grams out of spec low for a copper.

Hmm? That's interesting. This will be noted. Thank you Conder101.

On 8/18/2021 at 7:23 PM, Conder101 said:

Well the MINIMUM tolerance weight for a copper cent is 2.98 grams so I would say somewhere around 2.8  That would be about .2 grams out of spec heavy for a zinc, and about .2 grams out of spec low for a copper.

Thank you. And this

On 8/18/2021 at 6:34 PM, Coinbuf said:

When it weighs 3.11 grams on an accurate scale.

Please share videos when you finds AnyAll cents that you encounters weighing 3.11g. Thank you for your free speech.

On 8/18/2021 at 7:23 PM, Conder101 said:

Well the MINIMUM tolerance weight for a copper cent is 2.98 grams so I would say somewhere around 2.8  That would be about .2 grams out of spec heavy for a zinc, and about .2 grams out of spec low for a copper.

Thank you Conder101. I'll expect additional input because I've got a 1990 N.M.M./No Mont Mark/Philly weighing in at 2.8g.

On 8/18/2021 at 6:34 PM, Coinbuf said:

When it weighs 3.11 grams on an accurate scale.

However, there are multitudes more 3.0 Cents than 3.11. I've seen 2.9g. That's the one I wish I had kept. I got a new scale AUGUST10TH2021 and have seen seen less than 5 one cent coins weighing 3.11g out of hundreds.

At what gram will a zinc-planchet-cent raise suspension it maybe copper?

Thanks For Your Input,

Robert

On 5/18/2021 at 6:11 PM, TheOhioPlayr~Stamps said:

 

Well, you're wrong. I MERELY used MD'S metaphorically opposed to my overall concerns. BUT thanks anyway for your perspectives.

On 5/15/2021 at 2:09 PM, Oldhoopster said:

It sounds like your concerned because "Die shifting Errors" aren't worth anything (I assume your talking about mechanical/strike doubling). ... FIRSTLY: Actually my concern is remotely selected to "Die shifting Errors" rather than a plethora of Errors that are adamantly ignored by what you says further down, is the "market" fundamentally determines a coin's value. ...

The market makes the decision as to the value, not a few folks.  Currently there is no significant collector base that supports the buying and selling of MD coins at a premium.  They are too common and many times, difficult to see.  There is nothing wrong with collecting MD coins if you like them, just don't expect to find a market for them when you want to sell.  There  isn't any interest. ... SECONDLY: "Cherrypickers Guide..." Basically calls MD'S garbage/junk which discourages collecting them because two guys/few folks whom have several plethoras of guru's tooting the horns of Mr. Fivaz & Mr. Stanton. Correct me if I am wrong that my initial post, am I not clear my position on who, you said the market, determines the value on errors, but that market also includes published guru's like "Cherrypickers guide..."/two guys dictating what are acceptable errors and what are not acceptable errors. ...  Who knows what the future holds, but my guess us that they will be like common copper plated zinc cents in circulated condition, too many out there and too easy to find, for anyone to bother paying a premium

Now, if you're really interested, maybe you start classifying them and write a book.  That might be one way to generate some interest (although I think it would be daunting task with just the shear number of pieces). THIRDLY: "...to many out there and to easy to find...". Take the "Morgan Dollar" there maybe at least 275Millillon left today. And about half since 1918 was melted into silver bullion. But Morgan's are held in high regard as must have coins, and not because of the artistic quality but because a few guys revered the engraver as nearly God-like. 

Maybe you could put together a date set of MD coins.  That might be a fun challenge and you could probably do it CRHing. FOURTHLY: I don't have more than a few MD or Mechanical Die Shifting coins. I just used that error because your pals in "Cherrypickers Guide..." ripped MD'S and other errors; that's all. And LASTLY: I stand by my assertions that AnyAll Errors by the USMint should not be condemned but embraced into the splendorous world of Numismatica!

1 hour ago, Hoghead515 said:

Also they stamp so many and so quickly they cannot catch them all. If they do I assume they pick them out and cull them. Then collectors find them in change when they end up passing through inspection without getting found by mint. 

Thank You Hoghead515,

I can imagine that inspecting coins & bills is a difficult task. Nobody is perfect. I'm sure the men and women examining our currency/coins does there best day-in and day-out. And where would Numismatica be without defects becoming errors?

1 hour ago, RWB said:

What coin collectors like to call "errors" are manufacturing defects to the Mint Bureau. They have quality control systems to identify, assess and remediate defective products (coins) just as any other manufacturer. The QA is split into several segments: Production defect reduction; Defective product interdiction; and Deliberate defect creation. As Dir Moy once commented to Bill Fivaz (Cherrypicker's Guide, etc.) "My goal is to eliminate all the [error] coins you collect."

Thank You RWB,

Obviously right that AnyAll abnormalities from the original are defects. However, with publishings like, "Cherrypicker's Guide, etc." By Mr. Stanton & Mr. Fivaz with a handful of others choosing "picking" certain defects & determining values on these errors, but calling out; let's say, "Die Shifting Errors" as basically junk I take issues with that and AnyAll remaining errors that are ignored because a few guys & or ladies says so.

All I am saying is, give AnyAll defects RESPECT/recognition with degrees of severity & value opposed too a few accumulative folks throughout Numismatica history declaring what is/what is not acceptable by literally picking and choosing.

I am just 4 years into Numismatica and haven't yet organized my tiny collection and with much to learn, but this is an entity across continents which I observes the limitations by a few constricts the full splendors of Numismatica.

Again, I believe that AnyAll defects by the U.S.MINT should be acceptable as errors and based on their severity & numbers discovered & MS, might determined the defect's/error's value? Thanks again RWB

14 hours ago, BlakeEik said:

Hi OhioPlayr,

The Mint has thousands of people that do that for them, and then they post what they find in the NGC Registry forum for some reason. 

I'm not sure the Mint would invest such time and effort just to air out their dirty laundry. They already have a QA team. 

Technically if the Mint found every error there would be no error coins because they destroy them if they find them. 

Thank you BlakeEik,

Okay, now that I know the USMint post's these errors in NGC Forums, then this addresses one of my perplexities therein the upper echelons of the magnificent business/hobby of Numismatica; & that is why does only a very few coin guru's decides what & which error is more prominent than the next &OR which/what/why/how error(s) deserves zero monetary value(s), let alone deserves zero acknowledgements as a legitimate error regardless that the U.S.Mint classified(s) them as errors?

At least the U.S.Mint should at least categorize the severity of their error opposed too just a few guru's whom likely have hordes of the errors they decided(s) too call errors.

21 hours ago, Just Bob said:

Doubled dies are not caused by engravers or the engraving process, except possibly in the case of Class III (Design doubling, caused by re-hubbing a die with a different design - example: 1960D cent Small over Large date) or Class VII ( Modified Hub Doubling, caused when a hub is used to form a die, then repaired or otherwise modified, and re-impressed into the same die). Neither of these would be considered "intentional errors," at least in my opinion. Nor would any other of the other classes.

As for your second question in the title: I suppose the Mint does not categorize their errors because they don't like to admit that they make mistakes

I am not sure what your first question, about whether errors should be errors, actually means. 

A word of advice: be careful about using Youtube videos as a source of information. Many, if not most, videos about coins are designed to get views, not educate.

And, Welcome to the Forum  

JustBob,

Thank you for your input on doubled die(s). And however, there remains many experts whom has been/are still imbedded in "numismatics" as long or longer than you whom adamantly refutes your views. And personally, as novice I am in numismatica, and seeing/hearing different perspectives is as diverse as is this cool/intriguing hobby/business/entity of Numismatics.

That first question should have been more thorough. Fundamentally, I have complained since 2017 how, especially, "die shifting" is not a qualified error because what appears too be a select few snobs chose(s) too omit certain flaws therein the mint/minting Process of creating coins that is. By doing so, omitting obvious errors in creating coins absolutely dwarfs/restrains the splendor of Numismatica's beautiful diversity.

Oh, I 99.99% am unscramble. And spotting YouTube crowd-pleasers is preschool.

I have pondered since 2017 why does not the USMint Identify with categories it's own errors? Also, since 2017 when YouTube videos reinvigorated my coin interests from the early 1970's when my Grand Dad introduced me to numismatica. And henceforth I have heard from legitmate numismatic experts, especially from the now closed store, "Byrds Engraving", that Doubled Die errors are intentionally done by the engravers. This and a few conversations stirred my already analytical mind with the "Title" questions in this topic.

-AnyAll input is welcomed:

Rick,

I began my novice journey in numismatica/numismatics in 2017 after stumbling on a few YouTube videos that helped recall that my Grand Dad had introduced me to coin collecting about 1973. But I never stuck with it.

That being said, the best way to check for errors is to web search whatever coin/currency for that specific coin's "PROOF". And in this case, it is your 1973 Nickle. Best wishes.