silverdrag'n

Thanks for your reply, it is much appreciated.

About the coin:

When looking at the coin above it doesn't show 
any circulation wear...at all!

I wish you could see the coin as I can. On the 
reverse, the very fine feathers at the very top 
of the right wing (possibly one of the first
areas to show wear) doesn't show any...none!

Now, bag marks and assorted coin marks are 
part of having been put in a bag with other 
coins at the mint. Some of these flaws are to be
expected, but the coin has very high eye appeal
in spite of that.

 

HI All,

Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated. I've included a couple of photos of the coin and bear in in they don't do justice to the coin.

I think this coin has a big possibility of being graded MS 67. Take a look ============>

Hi,

Sorry olympicsos but I'm fresh out of Double Eagle porn. What I do have is the the obverse and reverse of the 1924 P Peace dollar I've been talking about.

Mind you, the photos don't do the coin justice but I'm sure you'll be able to tell its pristine condition. Notice that on the reverse side you can see the finer details of the top of the right wing feathers? I mention this because that is one of the very first areas to wear once the coin is circulated. Matter of fact I compared the my photos to the one that Heritage put up for auction and I think mine is prettier!

HI,

I don't have a 1924 Double Eagle. I have a 1924 P Peace dollar.

I guess the local shops have to make a living and their procing policies reflect that. If I am purchasing a coin and the need for outstanding quality is not a consideration, or acquiring junk silver, then eBay is my go to location. Many rimes I can buy junk silver at a very modest premium above spot and free shipping. How can you beat that?

Now, buying some of the better coins, say anything MS, is a trickier proposition. On the brighter side there are many eBay sellers that have never taken the time to really check out the provenance of a given coin and you will get a huge surprise when you order. Matter of fact, I just received a 1024 P Peace dollar that had been promoted as a BU. Upon closer inspection I could tell that the coin had, in fact, never, ever, been circulated. I then used PCGS's Photograde to compare the state of the coin and I received a very pleasant surprise, more like a jolt! !It appears the coin could be an MS67 and perhaps even an MS68. Heritage put one of these MS68 coins at auction and it sold for $58K+

Another time I ordered a coin that had been promoted as a 1976 P Eisenhower type 1 clad. Upon closer inspection I realized the coin in my hand had a "proof like" finish and I may have a very rare PL or DMPL coin. As soon as I do more investigating I will know for sure. So, as you can see, eBay can cut both ways but always an adventure!  

mmmmmmmmmmm good!

OK, I get it, document everything!

Exactly, the best way to provide for clients is to make sure what you can offer them is the best for their needs since it's the epitome of looking after or clients.

It may not be want they want to hear but they will thank you in the long run.  

14 hours ago, scopru said:

That is too bad to hear.  I had a similar experience with one local where I am at and very different experience with 2 others.  Basically one treated me as if I had the plague and the other 2 treated me like family.  A good brick and mortar is always a joy to go into and see and hold what I may be interested in purchasing.  I do shop online as well. 

I couldn't agree with you more, a good local dealer is a fine asset to find. Many dealers tend to forget that the new customer in the shop could be a long-term asset they should cultivate for mutual benefit, not just for "let's stick it to him because we've never seen Joe Blow before and he can't be of consequence." 

The gist of a good interaction, businesswise, is to forget about the momentary gain and strive to build a long-term relationship. I know, in my professional life I offered the corporate development services to take promising companies on to the capital markets, be it the NYSE, NASDAQ, AMEX, OTCBB and the Pink Sheets. Knowing how expensive our services were, I put talk of sales way in the back burner and dedicated my time to listening to my prospective clients because spending a few million dollars on an IPO is a big move for any up-and-coming company. 

The long-term care and utter reliability of my caring and "kid gloves" approach paid off handsomely because they could tell I was honestly interested in the success of their business.

After this, the sales rolled in on their own. 

Yes, matter of fact it did.

At the time I was purchasing $100 face value junk silver so I was willing to buy more than a very modest amount. Later on, online, I was able to acquire junk silver for a very modest 3% premium. The thing that gets me about the local dealers is that they are too willing to stick it to you when selling AND buying.

I have made some good relationships through eBay and feel fortunate for that achievement. Matter of fact, earlier today I  received an order for 12 each Peace dollars that were posted as BU and upon looking at them I could tell that that's exactly what they were. They were in pristine condition and I could tell they had never, ever, been circulated. When I first met the seller I purchased one Peace dollar to see the quality. Once it came in, and I confirmed its bona-fide condition, I turned around and ordered 12 more and was not disappointed. They are beautiful coins with no traces of ever having been circulated and I think some of them could grade out to be MS.  

28 minutes ago, ronnie stein said:

I agree with the poor pics and then the descriptions that are overdone, you can't help but think it's deception. One term that throws up the red flag for me personally, though it's not always true, is the word 'rare', or 'very rare' in the description. Ebay is legitimate, but not for me, too risky. Why chance the disappointment and then the hassle of correcting the bad situation, when, as JKK says, there's a good brick and mortar coin shop nearby. A GOOD relationship with the dealer to boot, your good to go. 

Yes! That is one of the terms I've noticed as well and it sends me into a frenzy of anxiety. Danger ahead Mr. Robinson, danger!

I do a lot of online buying but I take my time and don't get excited. I pick apart their offering and ask all the questions.
If it takes me a few days to ascertain the bona-fide character of the offer and I feel good about it, then i go ahead and
do it. If at any point they don't have an honest reply to a simple request, like: Can you provide better pictures for me? or, 
they can't account for the coin's provenance, I go elsewhere. 

As a tool to help me with my buying decision I use Photoshop to make a composite full view of their offering and then 
apply a range of filters that bring out details they were hiding, I've been using the application for a long time and consider
myself an expert. Believe me, it sure helps when you can see what  they were hoping to keep in the dark.  
 

I tried to build a relationship with a local coin dealer a few months ago and was not too pleased with the outcome.
I was looking to purchase junk silver and I realized the guy was charging me an astronomical premium above spot price,
about 32% above. This exchange happened over the phone. I remember the coin dealer getting hot headed when I
questioned  the high premium.

I let him know that I wasn't interested in his attitude and went elsewhere and found a dealer that was only going to charge
me a premium of about 12% (and I thought that was high as well) I'm sure that if I ever offered any coins for sale to the two
above individuals they would offer me a pittance for my coins. 

My  experience with the two dealers above has cemented a distaste to ever walk into any coin shop since I'd rather be 
treated in an honest manner and that is not what I found on the local level. Even more, once they realize you are a newbie
they show no reservations about treating you very badly. Count me as: twice bitten and twice shy!

There are so many offers available online for supposedly good coins and the sellers use some words
that immediately bring up red danger flags. One of the terms that doe it for me is "blast white." Other
terms are gem, brilliant white, shinny, glistening, and not to mention the obvious => cleaned.

Yet and still, many of these sellers will go to an extent to hide the true condition of their items up for sale.
Since it is so easy to produce good fair-to-middling images even with an inexpensive smart phone
and they resort to providing badly focused photos of their coins. I look at the pictures and I wonder
"What's up with this? \Why is this seller providing such low quality images for his coins?" The only reason
is that the seller is hiding something.

Another item is when sellers offer a  full uncirculated roll but mention that the end coins are some very
desirable dates and perhaps mints. I shy away from those offers because I'm sure the seller knows that 
the roll is NOT uncirculated and there are folks that can use and old empty coin roll and repack it with 
their choice of coins to fool the buyer into thinking the middle of the roll will have coins as valuable as the
end pieces. 99% of the time nothing could be further from the truth!

I encourage all to participate and value your experience and opinion. In the few short weeks I've been
engaged in this hobby I've learned a lot and i want to learn more. 
  

 So do I

Matter of fact many times it's a double catastrophe since it may also involve the laptop you are using.

God spare me from such things and keep me and my coins safe. 

Yes, it is more "disaster recovery" than any planned coin cleaning. Shouldn't the prudent coin collector immediately search for a way to stop the acid from further attack upon the coins surface? There has to be reasonable middle ground here folks.

HI Everybody,

I have a coin that's ostensibly worth about 8 bucks and upon a serious look at the coin realized it may be worth 4 to 5 figures. I wish to submit the coin to NGC for review and grading and as part of the process I need to declare the value of the coin. What value should I declare? I'm  a newbie and hope for the best but declaring an astronomical value may not be the thing do do.

What are your thoughts on this matter? What value should I  declare, the standard perceived value by coin type, or the hidden value I think the coin has?

Hi,

Thanks for your input but I'm sure all rules have their exception. Say you are eating a salad with lots of vinegar and you happen to overturn the bowl on top of your coin collection and most of the coins received a heavy bath in vinegar, salt, pepper and you name it. 

Common horse sense would dictate that you immediately clean those coins to rid them of the very acidic soaking they got since vinegar will etch the surface of the coins and that's the last thing wish.

What about when a coin has spots of silver sulfide? Left to its own designs the chemical reaction will continue to cover the surface and most collectors will not wish to purchase the coin on account of its terrible eye appeal...what do you do then?

So, it appears there are a number of circumstances when cleaning the coin is the most desirable course of action. Yet and still I do agree it's a step left to the more nuanced understanding of an experienced coin collector.

 

HI All,

This is my first posting here. How are you?

I've visited some utube.com pages and viewed information regarding the cleaning of coins and it struck me  that some of it was purely based on nothing but the opinion of the presenter. It seems to me that if a coin has been cleaned via such and such method, that the surface of the coin could be measured with modern and up to date equipment that will provide much more reliable information to the lay person.

Light diffraction across the surface of the coin could provide the basis for such a measurement since it will bounce in a different manner depending on the topography of the surface of the coin.

This subject is of a very scary nature to me because much of my trading for coins is done online and images can be manipulated to hide so many imperfections.

What's your take on this subject?