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deposito

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Journal Entries posted by deposito

  1. deposito
    As part of my collection of coins from 1916 (allegedly for my kid) I have been trying to get the Gold 100 Piasters from Egypt. 
    It's a one year type, also known as AH 1335 in the Islamic calendar.  Struck under authority of the British occupation in the middle of World War One when the Ottomans were on Germany Austria and Bulgaria's side.  You can get piles of the 20P 10P and 5P silver coins of the same year, and also from 1917, but the gold ones are tougher.  Although, watching Heritage auctions, you'd notice there usually are a few up every year.  So I won one of them late last year, a PCGS MS62, and I sent it to NGC.  They determined it was "NOT GENUINE" and sent it back.  Heritage bought it back from me.  Good people.
    So I really wanted it then, and I bought another one from an EBAY seller, this time in the old style NGC holder also graded MS62.  I sent it into NGC to reholder in the new style holder.  Guess what?  NGC decided that one wasn't genuine either!  They did the right thing and bought it back from me at the price paid to the Ebay Seller.  Can't blame the Ebay seller for selling an NGC graded coin.

    What's the give away?  I asked NGC, they didn't tell me.  Any advice?  They said to buy NGC certified examples!  I tried that.  But of course there doesn't seem to be a lot of better alternatives to trying again.  Next time I get one I should just leave well enough alone.  
    The numismaster listing for the coin says "prooflike restrikes may exist."  Nobody has confirmed that this is what I have been getting and sending in, but, maybe that would explain it.  Or it is just a highly faked coin.  Anyways I thought I would share this experience of buying two actually-certified examples of the same coin that both were later determined by NGC to be not genuine.  And, its nice to know both Heritage and NGC stand behind their businesses.
     
     
  2. deposito
    I started buying the Netherlands gold ducats in 2009 after reading a book called "A Splendid Trade."  Also that year I read "Pirate Hunter" about Captain Kidd from New York, and how he got done dirty by the new Dutch King William of England of the late 1600's / early 1700's.  I checked on Ebay, my go-to source at the time, and found I could get my hands on what turned out to be fairly common dates from the 1600's.  No matter.  Once I had a 1648 in my hands, and some warped worn out ones from the late 1500's, I was hooked, and it hasn't let up.  In the last four years I have divested many of those back to the sea of Ebay, but still have a nice 1612 and 1649 from the original crew.
    I thought to put this entry together after reading journals from other users about "making" new NGC coins in thinly-populated parts of the registry.  I commented that it was satisfying, despite usually finding that your raw coins have some problem or another leading to a "details" grade.  Lately I have picked up some raw examples and sent them to NGC, mostly finding that they were cleaned, filed, scratched, clipped, or otherwise damaged, despite looking pretty good.  Grade is barely half the battle with these coins, since each engraving is fairly different, and then the hand-striking and the variable waviness of the planchet all are sources of ugliness.  What I care about most is the face of the knight, and a non-wavy surface.  Most recently, I am looking for coins from dates that NGC and PCGS hasn't seen any examples, or any decent examples.  Here are four I won at auctions (both in Poland) or purchased directly from sellers in the Netherlands and Switzerland in the last three months, and got back from NGC as the best, and frequently only, example of their mint and year:
    The close-up heading up this entry is a 1635 of West Friesland that NGC graded MS61.  It is the most beautiful example of these four, whatever the numeric grade.  It is the only 1635 Netherlands ducat of any mint in any condition certified by NGC.  PCGS has certified one Gelderland ducat of 1635, at MS62, but it doesn't look good.  I found pictures of it an acsearch.info where it didn't sell at auction.
    The next is the scarcest of all of these, a 1622 West Friesland ducat.  It also is the least appealing. 
    There are no others of this date from any mint in any condition certified by NGC, and PCGS has certified one, of Utrecht, with "tooling", which someone is trying to sell on Ebay now for $5,000 (this coin cost nothing close to that).  This coin here, which somehow got graded MS62, is the only mint-state graded ducat of any mint from the entire decade of the 1620's at NGC or PCGS.  Notwithstanding the grade, it doesn't look that great.  There is no detail on the face.  I dealt directly with a dealer in Switzerland to get this, who sent me some photos of the original collector's documents showing it to be from the collection of a Hans Erb, of Chur, Switzerland, active at the end of the 1800s.  There was not sufficient documentation to get that on the NGC label unfortunately.  The 1620's are the decade when the Dutch were the first to discover parts of the coast of Australia, and when they founded New Netherlands and New Amsterdam, which would later become New York.
    The next coin is a 1661 Utrecht ducat that I am grateful made it back without a problem because it looks a little beat up. 
    NGC said MS61, and that is kind of a gift.  NGC has also graded one of these of the same mint and date AU58, but that one has a blank face, like the 1622 I just covered.  That one recently sold at a Heritage auction, and I passed on it because of the head.  The 1660's are a decade when the Dutch engaged in one of their several wars with England and were accused of starting the great fire of London of 1666.  They probably didn't do it.  There are no better examples of this date and mint at NGC or PCGS.
    The last coin here is the second-best looking, a Utrecht ducat of 1697.  I was very concerned that, based on the weakness at the feet of the knight, this coin had been formerly mounted or in jewelry or something. 

    I also picked this one up by directly negotiating with a dealer in Amsterdam.  He was not able to tell me more than that this was consigned by a collector who got it "long ago" at a coin fair in Amsterdam.  My investigation into this coin's history is ongoing.  This coin is pictured, in black and white, as the example on NGC's "Numismaster" "Krause Publications" webpage for the issue, but without any explanation of where that photo comes from.  I have examined that photo carefully and determined that it is not just a black and white version of the photo used by the dealer who sold me the coin.  When I inquired about where that picture was from, NGC told me it was "proprietary information."  See: https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/netherlands-utrecht-ducat-km-7-1-1600-1743-cuid-25707-duid-75206  .
       
    I have been looking at old catalogs and books, to the extent possible, on the Newman Numismatic Portal and Google Books without luck.  This is now the highest-graded Netherlands Ducat from any provincial mint of the 1690s, all of which come from Utrecht, including one other from 1697 in AU53, a 1696 in AU53, a 1695 in XF45, and one 1692 in MS61.  PCGS has only graded one Utrecht ducat from the 1690's, which is a 1694 in VF condition.  As I mentioned, I know for sure there is an excellent looking raw 1694 out there that someone else just won at auction.
    Part of the fun is the hunt, and the other part is bringing together long-separated buddies all struck in the Netherlands from their resting places around the world.  The knowledgeable European collectors of these coins do not put them in plastic cases, or care what NGC or PCGS says about them.  I have been personally reprimanded for doing this by some of them.  As one of these guys told me, it isn't a crime, it's just a bad habit.  Having the "finest graded" at NGC or PCGS doesn't come close to meaning the finest known. But, this is how I keep track of my collection, and fit these coins into my timeline of gold.  The same guy made good use of my ignorance to buy what probably is a very rare 1686 Holland ducat off me a couple years ago, which I was eager to part with because it had a dull appearance and earned a "surface hairlines" details grade by NGC.  Recognizing my mistake, I have been further motivated to seek out an even better replacement from that decade, the 1680's, so far without any luck. 
     
  3. deposito
    For more than 13 years I have been maintaining a slush fund, making sure I get the mail first, discarding all packaging and most documentation, and immensely discounting the value of the coins I have around.  NGC has helped by serving as an excuse for getting coins in the mail that were "already mine."  My wife has not been hostile to the collection, and has occasionally expressed some interest in a historical figure she has heard of showing up on a coin, but not much.  Ancient coins?  She doesn't really believe it.  When NGC sent back one coin out of a submission ungraded as "questionable genuineness" she said "of course they are going to do that sometimes - so you believe the rest are real."  
    About nine years back I started picking up Thai coins since she is from Thailand, and her mom and nephews have shown more interest in these than my wife has.  These really opened up some memories for the mom in law, and surprised my wife and her nephews with how much the value of a baht has deteriorated (like the dollar) since the late 1940's and 1950's.  Whereas a satang (like a cent) is pretty much a throw-away unit of currency in their lifetimes, (a baht is worth about 3.3 US cents, so a satang is worth 0.033 US cents), the mom in law remembers going to the market and most transactions taking place in satangs.  Thai coins, and a few banknotes, have run thin cover for the rest of my collecting.  As I have mentioned in prior entries, almost everyone from Thailand admires a big silver King Chulalongkorn coin.  Except perhaps the most virulent anti-monarchists.
    Anyways, I recently picked up a 100 Baht banknote from a 1929 series, issued May 1, 1932, just under two months before the mostly bloodless coup that resulted in King VII abdicating and the institution of a constitution in his place.  It basically looks the same as the 1 Baht note of the same issue, just bigger and bluer. 

    I left it on the counter for my wife to look at after dinner and she promised to take a look.  I expected the usual quick glance, "that's nice", and that's it.  But this time we got some emotion and awe-struckedness.  I can't read Thai but obviously she can.  What was getting the remarks "is it real?  Can it be?"  She recognized the name of the signature on the note.  It was one of the founders of her University, Thammasat.  Pridi Banomyong.  This guy (I have learned) was one of a few up-and-coming western educated "commoners" known as "promoters" who had been exposed to the ideals of Western democracy, nationalism, and, unfortunately communism.  The good news is that communism never took hold in Thailand, and everyone lived happily ever after under a sort of compromise between old-line traditional monarchy and constitutional democracy.  But this guy's role in founding the University my wife went to is what she knows him for.  She posted a scan of the note to a group of friends from college on-line, and confessed that she was impressed.  
    I used the opportunity while she was facing her computer to place some bids on secret prohibited coins of course.
  5. deposito
    I have communicated with another classic Thai coin collector on this board about the perils of buying raw Thai coins, if you hope for problem-free grades.
    I have never sent them any raw Thai coins before, but took a shot on some Ebay auctions over the last few months.  If the Rama 7 (smaller one bottom right) or one of the Rama 5
    coins comes back MS anything (besides the MS61 PCGS breakout you see in there), this will have all been worth it.  

    Among the Rama V bahts (the one you see seven of), there are a few scarce dates.  The usual Rama 5 baht has no date and is attributed to 1876-1900.
    But starting in 1901 or 1902 they have "RS" numbers dating them to 1902, 03, 04, 05, 06, and 07.  The PCGS breakout is a 1906. 
    There's also a 1905 and two 1903's in there.
    The chubbier-looking guy, facing right, is Rama 6, and these are both common 1916 bahts.  The bright one has some surface hairlines, I'm afraid, when turned. 
    These are not worth much more than the $20 grading fee, but, they could make a good gift.  I'll post what the results are in a few months.
  6. deposito
    I have made some offers to owners through Heritage to try to sneak out with a coin or two I want.  I did get one that way, and I have sold one that way too.  It's a nice feature.  Usually my offers are ignored or rejected, and I have admittedly rejected most of the offers made to me.  I am more of a collector than a dealer, and the coins I would sell usually were purchased pretty long ago when I wasn't as focused.
    Anyways, I was browsing the recent offers because it is a good picture of the market.  And I'll be interested to see what people have to say about this one!  See the 1850 O half dollar, without even a photo, that sold in 1997 for $431 which has a pending offer for $105,000, below. 

    Typing error?  I don't know U.S. coins, but I have joked for a long time about how expensive they are compared to the ancient and medieval coins I collect.  I started a set of 1916 coins for my kid a few years ago, and the nagging hole in that set is the 1916 standing liberty quarter.  I will never be able to justify foregoing the rarer ancient gold I like just to put a quarter in a set that can barely be distinguished from a BU 1917 example that costs a couple hundred bucks.

    Check out the progression of offers on this half dollar above.  Starting in 2016 someone started making modest offers, like $520, all the way up to a bold $1,200.  I guess they finally gave up on this owner ever responding or taking them seriously, won the lotto, and are back with a vengeance. 
    I can't wait to see THIS offer show up as rejected in a couple days.  The owner must have parted with the coin, lost internet access, become incapacitated, or REALLY LIKES THE COIN.  Too bad we can't see how awesome this beauty must look.
    Check your change for an 1850 O half dollar kids.
     
  7. deposito
    These photos were taken in natural sunlight.  They are the Baht and its fractional silver pieces from the popular King Chulalongkorn.  These are the brightest examples without toning I could put together.
    There are also copper pieces that can still be found looking not too dark, with a slightly different, even better portrait of the King.  I believe there was no 1/2 Baht for this time.

    The examples of these coins we have that were given higher grades look duller.
    The most common Baht is "no date" (1876-1900) just like the 1/4 and 1/8 Baht coins shown here.  The 1903 (RS 122) Baht included here is a little more scarce, but not that much.  The RS means "Rattanakosin".  The Rattanakosin Era began 1781, about the same time the USA was getting started.  So, 122 is 1903.  If you look at the worn and beaten Baht coins available on Ebay they can often be found advertised as "1876-1900" or "ND" when they are actually dated, RS 120 through, maybe, 127.
    There is a very worn coin ending on Ebay now, the reverse picture is below.  It is at just $16.  It is listed as 1876-1900.  But the date appears at the very bottom on the reverse, here. 
    If there is no date, there is no 3-character thing at the very bottom.  This one, like all of them, is "1 2 __".  I am pretty sure, after a careful review of Thai numbers, that it is 1 2 0.
    That makes this a pretty scarce 1901 Baht.  In AU55 or better without problems it would sell for $700 to $1000.  This coin likely has more problems than just heavy wear.  Maybe it is F.  It doesn't matter much.  I will try to pick it up, they make great gifts for Thai kids.  This is recognizable as the portrait of the most popular and famous king in Thailand.  People are coming to light smell sticks and leave whiskey in front of his statue in front of the Parliament building every night.