RWB

"Pulled" as in "taken directly from the press immediately after striking; pushed, pulled, shoved or bullied around, but plucked by gloved hand off the lower die bby someone willing to risk losing a finger or two." An old toggle press can be run at any speed and produces the same force regardless. A few manual turns of the flywheel would have satisfied Louis Comparette.

Member "leeg" can answer your questions about the coin. He has possibly the best info on classic commems anywhere.

Flying squirrels don't need training.

No "Special Mint Sets" were made in 1964. Hence, there can be no such coins. Pieces being mis-described in that way are early strikes off new dies -- something that happened hundreds of times in 1964 and every other year. The accompanying tall tales would be worthy of Mark Twain, if they weren't accompanied by greed and ignorance well beyond anything in "The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County."

RE: "FINALLY FOUND ME ONE 1958 DDO I LIKE TO SEE ANYONE TEL ME I AM WRING [ sic, 'wrong' ]THIS TIME PERSEVERANCE PAYS OFF" Absolutely not a doubled die. Keep searching, though. When you find one that exactly matches the photo Sandon posted, you can crow day and night.

The pictured coin was not struck on a medal press, was not sandblasted at the Philadelphia Mint, has probably never been in Philadelphia, and could not tell a Philly cheese-steak from a Boston barnacle.

What one "wants" and what one "receives" might not be identical.

So is there any consensus between "unblemished as it was struck," and "perfect in every way" ? The first (Sheldon) is a practical definition, and the second is a Divine intervention.

Heavily promoted. Now duds...as in your thread title.

Pioneer gold imitations made using copy dies. 1908 DE from the "Wells Fargone" hoard.

That would be interesting if the grades were reliable. But TPGs have slipped grades downhill so much that if the Label says "Mint State 62" the coin might really be AU or even EF for wear. There are too many examples of this to make these "grade" labels meaningful opinions. The market can show us meaningful value only if buyer and seller are knowledgeable enough to make informed decisions.

Here's a photo of kegs being loaded on a wagon for transport from a New York bank to a ship. The bank assumed the expense of making and packing kegs, transfer to a ship, loading, and insurance. The men wearing white straw hats (back right, front right) are Pinkerton guards.

However, this is something we cannot know, unless a complete census is taken. That is an extremely rare situation. I agree with Kurt's comment. Also the TPGs have failed to be "neutral, 3rd party arbiters" as shown by grade inflation, inconsistency, attribution irregularities, incomplete data release, and other factors. Except for catching most counterfeits submitted to them, nothing has really improved since they started operation....well prices for coins have been inflated by fee recovery. Registry participants are only a small subset of collectors and collections.

Authentication company populations are not reliable single sources. Among many biases, they do not state the total number of each piece submitted -- only how many were authenticated.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope.

Nope. It must look exactly like the image posted on another thread.

You raise some excellent and practical points. However, it is not as difficult as you suggest. Once done, only basic maintenance is required. Each operation is confined to a separate enclosure. The coining room is the only place difficult to control, so ISO Level 4 or 5 might be the best that can be expected - once cleaned, surfaces sealed, and air flow is controlled a vacuum flush would be done each day. Struck coins go immediately under filtered compressed air onto protective carriers. The real "clean room" (level; 2, >100 μm per meter^2) is packaging which can be done in small vacuum chambers, with renewable sealed surfaces, decontamination of holders and robotic handling (as is currently done at West Point). [Multiple small chambers allow quick isolation of Q/A problems and also electrostatic environment cleaning with minimal investment.] I also recommend dry nitrogen sealed inside the capsules, if possible. Notice that I omitted inspection. That comes after encapsulation. It is more efficient and much easier to maintain cleanliness if exposure time is minimized and transfers from one operation to another are minimized until the coin is safely under seal. Industry already uses surface imaging to detect contamination on surfaces, so this is a current technology, and not overly expensive. This is not really a human occupied clean room, so there is limited access, minimal open space. In a TPG, the original gov capsule should not be opened, but inspected for coin condition, then inserted in the company's holder. This completely avoids the chance of TPG contamination, and clearly points to the place of manufacture if any problems occur in the future. Now this means a few bean counters will go hungry. But most of the cost is up front capital. Maintenance need not be costly, if it is well designed and integrated into the business workflow from the beginning.

Suspect a crude counterfeit in tin or silver that was gold plated. The roughly cut outline, bungled inscriptions, and light weight (3.5 g nominal, 0.986 fine) are likely pointers. Drilled hole in another - holes in gold coins were usually punched to preserve the gold content (gold coin circulated by weight and fineness not by legal value). Inscription on real 1611 ducat ---- Reverse Legend In Tablet: MO ORDI / ROVIN / FOE DER / BELG AD / LEG IMP Obverse Legend from 12 o'clock reading right: CONCORDIA RES // PAR - VAE - CRES(CVNT) WEST(F)

Everything that touches the proof ASE/AGE surface, or comes near it is a potential source of contamination. The lounger the exposure or the dirtier, the greater is the potential. That does not mean only the air in the coining room or processing and encapsulation. It means everything including the inside surfaces of capsules, peoples' breath and moisture; clothing fabric softeners and certain UV fluorescent brighteners. Dust kicked up by sound from voices, machinery. the PA system; vibrations from trucks that shake silver dust lodged on the ceiling a decade ago; acoustic tile lint or dust. Every step has to be clean....And the TPGs have to do exactly the same when they open a capsule and put a coin into another piece of plastic. It is all a "krap shoot" and your odds of getting visible spots go up every time that original is opened; and you pay $50 for the potential of ruining a nice proof surface. I'm being assertive because too many coins (and money) are ruined through this kind of producer, corporate and collector carelessness.

Added below: Westfriesland. Gold Ducat 1611 (Heritage Signature Sale #0363; Lot #22952).

For delivery/shipment, gold coin was packed in kegs or wood boxes (mostly domestic shipment) containing $40,000. This was the largest size that could be easily handed by Teamsters and Post Office workers. An article by Jim Bruns, the SI Curator who got the Postal Museum started, explains the boxes; keg packing info is in Mint archives. (I worked with Bruns during the early 1970s. His father was once Postmaster General, if I recall correctly.)

I was referring to the first coin shown in this thread. The nomenclature is misleading, probably from initial uncertainty about the cause. Something like "particle contamination" or "silver particle contamination" might be more descriptive. "Milky spot" could apply to the dryer spots that resemble the calcium deposits on the glass illustrated above. [Fifteen-plus years ago I gave PCGS and NGC the formula for removing "milky spots" caused by the U.S. Mint's use of a version of "Simple Green" in their final planchet rinse (but then dried without a recommended pure alcohol dip/dry). I did not hear from either, and did not follow up. All precious metal planchets now come from contractors, so the Mint has no direct involvement. Silver particle contamination is an entirely different beast. Once visible, it is already too late.]

Research in the Central Mint in China proved that airborne dust, including metal particles, were the cause of surface contamination as shown in the the first image on this post. The contamination pattern from surface silver is in the form of a minute very dark blue/black spot surrounded by a dark blue band, surrounded by a fading lighter blue. This research was done more than 20 years ago and published in academic journals (in English and Mandarin). (It was also investigated in Vienna and Perth, and possibly the U.S. Mint Bureau.) Color of the visible spot will vary with the contaminant, but the Chinese concentrated on understanding silver. That pointed to the need for complete separation of silver and gold operations....and "Yes," a high level of air purity and contamination prevention....much like a "clean room" and way better than typical hospital surgical theaters.