CAC to launch Sep.1

[DC Dawg]

* Albanese is quoted as saying they are limiting this to PCGS and NGC because only they have published pop reports.

Oh? Then the ANACS pop report that I can access when I login to their website is what... chopped liver?

 

One of the thing that bothers me about this venture is that it makes the CAC look like it is an attack on PCGS and NGC. By Albanese not doing his homework and noting that ANACS publishes its pop reports suggests that he does not care about the rest of the industry, just going against the big two. With Albanese involved with the founding of the two companies, it also looks like he has an axe to grind. He does not like the way his "babies" are doing business so he's going to do what he can to "fix" them. This is not for the alleged good of the hobby. This is for Albanese ego.

 

No, I don't know Albanese and I some may think I am wrong, but that is what it looks like from this corner of the numismatic world. And considering my work involves the federal government, I am good at conspiracy theories--and this is a doozy!!

 

Scott

 

Scott,

 

I don't think it is fair for someone who doesn't "know Albanese" and is relying on the spotty information provided through a few internet posts and one article (have you even read it in its entirety?) to make judgements and false accusations. At least one of the people I know personally, trust implicitly, and I take offense to you calling them liars and questioning their integrity with nothing more than a self-described consipracy theory.

 

Shame on you...Mike

Mike... I admited that I am basing my opinion on the information presented. I also admitted that I like a good conspiracy theory. I am up front with everything. There is no shame to having an opinion and I make no apologies for forming an opinion based on the information available. Let them prove me wrong and I will change my opinion... and I will admit to it. Until then, I stand by my opinion!

 

Scott

[Houston Investor]

I have heard guys say they will try to retail CAC coins at a 25% premium vs non CAC coins. I am not sure even a 10% tack on will fly with the market place.

 

It would be ironic to see the CAC sticker become a symbol saying "I am too expensive, don't buy me."

 

I have no plans to pay a premium for CAC coins offered me at my table. For coins I can use for inventory I usually offer CDN Bid less my purchase commission of 5%. Will I try to sell CAC coins at a premium - sure why not if they think they are really worth more. Summer has been slow and I could use a bonus, especially if it will go towards some good brew or quality entertainment.

 

 

[Zoins]

It would be ironic to see the CAC sticker become a symbol saying "I am too expensive, don't buy me."

The price variation for nice coins vs. dogs of the same grade is already very high for some coins. Some dealers have show reports that indicate some plastic is already an indication that says "I am too expensive, don't buy me" yet people do. So people will probably buy CAC coins but hopefully their standards aren't low.

 

I'm curious to see how things play out. Should be interesting either way.

[Stanley]

It would be ironic to see the CAC sticker become a symbol saying "I am too expensive, don't buy me."

The price variation for nice coins vs. dogs of the same grade is already very high for some coins. Some dealers have show reports that indicate some plastic is already an indication that says "I am too expensive, don't buy me" yet people do. So people will probably buy CAC coins but hopefully their standards aren't low.

 

I'm curious to see how things play out. Should be interesting either way.

Just my opinion, however I can see over time, the efficiency and competitiveness equate to savings to the end user (collector).

[ziggy29]

It would be ironic to see the CAC sticker become a symbol saying "I am too expensive, don't buy me."

The price variation for nice coins vs. dogs of the same grade is already very high for some coins. Some dealers have show reports that indicate some plastic is already an indication that says "I am too expensive, don't buy me" yet people do. So people will probably buy CAC coins but hopefully their standards aren't low.

Well, I think it would put a "floor" on value at a particular grade, and that floor would be tied to what a member dealer would pay for such a coin (and thus re-sell a "baseline" stickered coin for).

 

It would not put a ceiling on the value for sight-seen transactions. If a coin is ridiculously PQ for the grade, I wouldn't expect it to sell for roughly the same price as a "good enough for the grade" piece also blessed by CAC. If someone tries to sell a "just good enough" coin for 50% more than a "just missed the cut" coin, they may have trouble selling it.

 

(Then again, a lot of registry players will pay a LOT more for a very weak 66 than a very strong 65, even if both appear very similar. And a lot of people are paying more money for "First Strike" even though there's nothing special about the coin relative to others in its grade. So maybe that won't be true. Maybe people will pay moon money for the sticker regardless of the coin. In any case, the point remains that extreme quality for the grade will always sell for a lot more than "just good enough" to be stickered.

[DonHeath]

Mr.Lustig made a stellar observation on the other board.

CAC will restore some credibility to the SIGHT SEEN market by forcing its bidders to accept stickered coins. Compare that to what goes on today. Dealers post increasingly higher sight seen bids, the bids get reported as "market prices", and then the dealer is free to reject most if not all as not meeting his standards. Of course, the purpose of that game is to profitably liquidate a position that was taken long ago.

[carson city]

Indeed !

[MarkFeld]

Mr.Lustig made a stellar observation on the other board.

CAC will restore some credibility to the SIGHT SEEN market by forcing its bidders to accept stickered coins. Compare that to what goes on today. Dealers post increasingly higher sight seen bids, the bids get reported as "market prices", and then the dealer is free to reject most if not all as not meeting his standards. Of course, the purpose of that game is to profitably liquidate a position that was taken long ago.

Another reason that certain bidders post high sight-seen bids (which, on a practical basis, they have no obligation to honor) is to encourage sellers to offer coins to them in the hopes that the owners will unknowingly offer PQ or under-graded coins. In that event, the bids are honored.

[carson city]

Who are these "certain bidders" that post high sight-seen bids ?

[DonHeath]

In theory at least, it sounds like the bids will be more realistic, and less manipulative, which on the surface sounds like a healthy reaction.

[MarkFeld]

In theory at least, it sounds like the bids will be more realistic, and less manipulative, which on the surface sounds like a healthy reaction.

There is a huge difference between sight-unseen bids (which a bidder is obligated to honor) and sight-seen bids (which are often meaningless).

[Tradedollarnut]

I once bought a PCGS MS66 Bust Dollar in auction. My bid was based in part upon the greysheet bid at the time. One month after I bought it, the bid dropped by 40%.

 

Imagine that.

[IGWT]

What a racket. Did you ever find out which dealer(s) were placing the bids? It seems like dealers who are plugged into the network would stand a better chance than any collector of spotting shenanigans of this kind.

[Tradedollarnut]

I don't need to find out - I know for sure ... it was either the guy selling the coin or one of his friends.

[BankNote1]

Dumb questions. Will the consortium just sticker high end super pieces or will they sticker correctly graded coins?

Also how will this get rid of the over graded stuff? I am guessing that there will be many correctly graded coins that will not get stickers?

 

[Houston Investor]

Where is their website - I would like to see what their fees are.

[Keleum]

I don't see the CAC sticker protecting me from bad merchandise, I see it protecting the CAC maker.

 

For me the collector, whether 0.1% or 99.9% of certified coins get stickered isn't really relevant is it? I would only pay a CAC premium if/when I wanted the assurance that the CAC will buy it back for a "fair" publicly stated price. Would I pay a reasonable premium most all the time, sure. I do with the stock market. Would I go out of my way to find them, no. They need to be where I'm buying.

 

They're selling trust and respect, everything they do needs to be above board and open. I'm not sure that a privately held company can accomplish that. That said, everything I've seen and heard, from people that actually know, has been encouraging. So I'd like to see it succeed.

[jom]

They're selling trust and respect, everything they do needs to be above board and open.

 

Yet they start out by having a policy that does NOT tell you why they rejected a particular coin.

 

But like I've said I don't care either way what CAC does. I will go about my business (mistakes and all) as usual. I'm sure the company will have a good rep if Mark is involved so for his sake I hope they do well.

 

jom