Grading Services and the 1877 Indian Head Cent

[lkenefic]

I've seen this happen before. Key dates seem to get a pass of 2-5 grading points in lower grades. I know this particular coin quite well and I'm very familiar with the "shallow N" reverse and other diagnostics [weak strike] that can affect the overall grade. However, taking these diagnostics into consideration, I'm seeing very few properly graded 1877s in higher end plastic. Do I simply have an inability to grade this particular date? I've tried honing my grading skills by looking at quite a number of these over the last few years and think I have a pretty good feel for this particular series [and this particular date]. I seem to be able to recognize an AG3 when I see one... but most [certified] G4's I'm seeing I feel should fall into this category as well...G6's are looking like 4's to me...VG8s are looking like 4 to 6's... F12's are looking like 8's...and so on.... It's rare that I see what I consider to be a properly graded 1877...Do I need to go back to grading school?

[TomB]

I believe I have seen the same thing with this date for at least eight years and have attributed it to the fact that properly graded coins of this issue are held in tight hands while overgraded coins are offered for sale to maximize profit.

[James_OldeTowne]

I agree with your points. Furthermore, people that I call "coin brokers" rather than "coin dealers" try and pass off the slough as "PQ" coins. I need an 1877 in a real G-4 grade, and actually found a nice G-4 in a PCGS G-6 holder at Mid America. However, the seller wanted between VG ASK for the darned thing - a $150 premium!! Needless to say, I decided to wait.

[michael]

there is so much demand and not enough coins in the slabbing services grades needed by collectors that the services overgrade as there is demand

 

and the good 4 in a 6 holder thde good 6 in a vg holder etc.

 

are still sought after and bought by collectors

 

the services are only givimg waht the buyers want and they still sell in overgraded holders even when priced at the next grade up

 

demand demand demand................

[lkenefic]

Well...I guess I'm part of the problem...errr...uhhh.. the demand..

 

I just think there still wouldn't be any problem moving these things even if graded properly... they'd just move at slightly less of a premium for those that are purchasing the coin and not the number on the piece of plastic.

 

I did purchase a similar coin under similar conditions some time ago...my 1914-D Lincoln. I felt the coin graded VG10..perhaps F12 on a good day... but the coin appears in F15 plastic. I paid F money:

 

 

 

[Conder101]

I agree the 14-D is a decent VG-8. I started noticing the grade bump for popular key coins years ago. I've always felt that the 16-D dime is the worst case of the grade "kindness". When I learned to grade you needed complete rims to grade Good. They didn't hve to be full and sharp but the had to show all the way around. If the rims weren't complete it was an AG, if they were worn into the letters it was Fair. After awhile I started seeing slabbed 16-D's where the rim wasn't complete on one side being called G-4, then G-4's with incomplete rims on both sides, then G-4's with the rims worn into letters on one side and recently I've started seeing VG-8's with rims that aren't complete. Coins I would call AG are being slabbed as VG-8.

[lkenefic]

Exactly! The 1877 IHC has sufferred the same fate. If one goes by ANA grading standards, there should be full rims for G4. I've seen wear down into the legends and the coins still go into G4 plastic. The bar for VG8 should be full rims and at least three letters of "LIBERTY"...I've seen such coins holder at F12.

 

L

[BillJones]

At the recent Baltimore show, I dealer whom I respect and have done a lot of business with in the past had two 1877 Indian cents in NGC EF holders. One had a good strong "LIBERTY", but by "old time" standards would have just missed EF. The other did not have a complete "LIBERTY." In fact it was not better than the 1877 in "Fine" I bought when I was kid back in the 1960s.

 

I have a want list for the coin, but did not pull the trigger because I though the prices were too high. Both coins were sold before noon on Friday of the show.