Buying Key Date Coins...

[lkenefic]

I'm down to two dates each for both my IHC collection (1869/69 and 1877) and my Lincoln Cent collection (1909-S VDB and 1922 Plain). When I bought my 1909-S IHC and my 1914-D they were both ANACS slabbed. Do you ever consider raw coins for key dates or do you exclusively by certified for the authenticity guarantee? I suppose there's a real leap of faith for buying raw, especially over the Internet. However, there are several board members here that I would purchase from and wouldn't give it a second thought. If you do buy certified, do you crack them out [thus loosing the authenticity guarantee] or do you leave them encapsulated.

 

Thoughts?

 

Leo

[TomB]

I own several 1914-D Lincoln cents, all in lower grades of G6-VF25, and none have ever been certified. There are valuable resources available that list known diagnostics of genuine and counterfeit coins and that also have quality images of such coins. Your numismatic library should have copies of these resources and you should be familiar with them before purchasing oft-counterfeited material. I would guess that the "most-key" coin I have ever cracked out would be a tie between a completely original and slightly undergraded VF25 1892-O Barber half and another original, very tough F15 1893-S Barber half.

[rrantique]

Leo, i think if you have certified coins , that are "Key" coins, they are best left in the holder. It is always a gamble submitting raw coins for regrade or buying them from an unfamiliar or trustworthy source. As you know the reasons are many. But the most significent thing being the "Key" coins are the most aggressively messed with. JMHO

[lkenefic]

TomB... I've got the ANA grading guide and Counterfeit detection book as well as Rick Snows book on Flying Eagles and Indian Head Cents. I've also found some pretty good material online with lots of graphics for counterfeit detection of key dates. Knowledge is power...but there are some pretty convincing fakes out there...especially in gold!

 

Leo

[TomB]

I agree with you, especially with gold. Gold is so highly counterfeited, and with such sophistication in some instances, that I do not buy classic gold that is not certified.

[construct]

I would not buy a key date Lincoln or Indian Head raw over the internet. I would be worried about recoloring or whizzing as well as authenticity. If I bought the coin slabbed, I'd leave it slabbed. It would be more liquid for my heirs if I didn't upgrade it during life.

[James_OldeTowne]

Do you ever consider raw coins for key dates or do you exclusively by certified for the authenticity guarantee?[/q]

I sure do. I'm confident in being able to authenticate many key-dates, but when you are buying from a reputable dealer, you should be fine. For example, I wouldn't hesitate for even a second buying a key-date from Coleman Foster, Jack Beymer, Ed Hipps, or any of the other well-known dealers who have lots of un-certified coins. Those guys are probably better than a TPG for catching fakes.

[halfpint]

I'm down to two dates each for both my IHC collection (1869/69 and 1877) and my Lincoln Cent collection (1909-S VDB and 1922 Plain). When I bought my 1909-S IHC and my 1914-D they were both ANACS slabbed. Do you ever consider raw coins for key dates or do you exclusively by certified for the authenticity guarantee? I suppose there's a real leap of faith for buying raw, especially over the Internet. However, there are several board members here that I would purchase from and wouldn't give it a second thought. If you do buy certified, do you crack them out [thus loosing the authenticity guarantee] or do you leave them encapsulated.

 

Thoughts?

 

Leo

 

 

i think it's wise to purchase a slabbed key date. in the future if you wish to sell i think it would be attractive to a broader population of collectors. i really think that there are quite a few collectors now and more in the future that don't know how to grade and choose not to learn, therefore would 'have faith' that buying a slab is a slam dunk. especially in risks of getting burned. just my opinion.

 

[BillJones]

I would never buy a key date coin raw unless I had a chance to examine it personally, and the price was quite attractive. There are just too many pitfalls that can happen when you send something in for grading. These include body bags and unexpected lower grades than you anticipated.

 

I'm not even the biggest fan of ANACS when it comes to rare date coins. Years ago I got a 1916 Standing Liberty quarter in a trade. It was a raw coin and genuine with VF sharpness, but it had been recolored with something that looked like shoe polish. I sent it to ANACS expecting to get it into a "genuine" but net graded holder. I about fell on the floor when it came back as VF-25 with no net grading whatsoever.

 

The dealer who had submitted it to ANACS for me wanted to buy the coin although he realized it was a problem piece. We had discussed that before we sent it in for grading. I sold it to him because I don't like to retail such items.

 

Buying key date coins for high prices can be a minefield even in slabs. I could tell you some war stories, but won't for now. Buying them raw is really asking for trouble UNLESS you really know what you are doing.

[lkenefic]

Bill...others...

 

Very interesting comments! My rationale for purchasing my first two "key" dates was the guarantee of authenticity. The 09-S Indian has AU details but [as the story goes] was left in an oak roll-top desk for many years leading to surface corrosion from tanic acids. It got net graded as I was expecting but they netted it waaaayyyy down to VF35 [i was expecting XF45]. I have subsequently cracked this coin out of the ANACS holder and it now resides in my Dansco album with the ANACS label pasted in back. I don't know that NCS could do anything for the dark corrosion. The 1914-D Lincoln was the first coin I ever purchased "on approval". This was from a board member ATS. From the pics before the coin arrived and looking at it in-hand I would have seen this coin as being an F-12 with no qualifiers... and the price was favorable. This piece still resides in ANACS plastic as F-15. I'm reticent to crack this one out because ANACS was so "kind" to it on the one hand; however, it is a lower grade piece that would fit right in with my "middle-of-the-road" [VG-XF] Lincoln Cent collection.

 

I'm fairly comfortable with the diagnostics of the key dates remaining for these two collections; however, I guess I'm vascilating for wanting the authenticity guarantee as well. I can see the arguments in favor of each and certainly having the coin slabbed will mean less of a headache for my heirs if I step out in front of a bus tomorrow.

 

One [esoteric] thing that hasn't been mentioned is: how do you display coins if you collect in albums yet have just a couple or three of the keys out of it?

 

All the Best...Leo

[construct]

How do you display coins if you collect in albums yet have just a couple or three of the keys out of it?

 

Chances are that if your audience knows coins, those keys are going to be the ones they're primarily interested in seeing anyway. They won't even care that they aren't in the album, and they might be appreciative that they're separate so they can hold them in the light and look at them more closely.

 

If your audience doesn't know coins, having them in the slab provides you with an educational opportunity. You can explain to them why those coins are more valuable, and you can tell them about the protections that TPGs provide.

 

When I first got back into collecting, I hated slabs because they didn't allow for compact, uniform displays. Since then I've learned that they actually enhance my ability to communicate information through my collection.

[BillJones]

Bill...others...

 

Very interesting comments! My rationale for purchasing my first two "key" dates was the guarantee of authenticity. The 09-S Indian has AU details but [as the story goes] was left in an oak roll-top desk for many years leading to surface corrosion from tanic acids. It got net graded as I was expecting but they netted it waaaayyyy down to VF35 [i was expecting XF45]. I have subsequently cracked this coin out of the ANACS holder and it now resides in my Dansco album with the ANACS label pasted in back. I don't know that NCS could do anything for the dark corrosion. The 1914-D Lincoln was the first coin I ever purchased "on approval". This was from a board member ATS. From the pics before the coin arrived and looking at it in-hand I would have seen this coin as being an F-12 with no qualifiers... and the price was favorable. This piece still resides in ANACS plastic as F-15. I'm reticent to crack this one out because ANACS was so "kind" to it on the one hand; however, it is a lower grade piece that would fit right in with my "middle-of-the-road" [VG-XF] Lincoln Cent collection.

 

I'm fairly comfortable with the diagnostics of the key dates remaining for these two collections; however, I guess I'm vascilating for wanting the authenticity guarantee as well. I can see the arguments in favor of each and certainly having the coin slabbed will mean less of a headache for my heirs if I step out in front of a bus tomorrow.

 

One [esoteric] thing that hasn't been mentioned is: how do you display coins if you collect in albums yet have just a couple or three of the keys out of it?

 

All the Best...Leo

 

If the 1909-S Indian was as you described, expecting EF-45 as a net grade was more than you should have expected. EF-45 is a prime collector grade for that coin, and most collectors would want a clean one, not a corroded AU. Also corrosion should lower the grade by more than 10 points if it is all over the coin. VF is about the best you could expect from a corroded AU copper coin, unless the corrosion is very isolated.

 

Secondly, I doubt that NCS will touch that coin. The trouble with corrosion is that it is not something that is lying on top of the coin. It’s the stuff of which the coin is made, and if you remove it, the surfaces will be entirely altered and usually pretty ugly.

 

I still have my boyhood collection of Lincoln cents. Some years ago I did have the 1909-S-VDB slabbed because the coin was worth it, and that piece is so often counterfeited that certification is required. The rest of the set is not nice enough to spend the money on slabs. If I were to show the set around I think most people understand why the 1909-S-VDB is certified.