I really REALLY have to laugh...with this pcgs copper guarantee

[MikeKing]

Unless I misunderstand it...they are guaranteeing if they say it's red it's red?

 

Cmon...this is a joke. I don't think you can even have a serious discussion about this false claim.

 

All I see are RB Lincolns that turned in PCGS Red holders all over the place.

 

What is this, some kind of joke???!!!

 

Be real.

 

 

You know they'll snake their way around that 'guarantee', they can't afford to do otherwise.

[MBA101]

Buy up all the red copper that you can in PCGS holders and hold it till it turns, then go to PCGS to get money, then buy a bunch of Busties!

[James_OldeTowne]

Unless I misunderstand it...they are guaranteeing if they say it's red it's red?

 

Cmon...this is a joke. I don't think you can even have a serious discussion about this false claim.

 

All I see are RB Lincolns that turned in PCGS Red holders all over the place.

 

What is this, some kind of joke???!!!

 

Be real.

 

 

You know they'll snake their way around that 'guarantee', they can't afford to do otherwise.

At the EAC show, an ex-PCGS grade told me that he was certain the PCGS plastic contribtues to copper toning in the slabs. He told me NEVER to buy certified red copper (PCGS and NGC).

[MBA101]

How do you keep them from turning anyway?

[MarkFeld]

Unless I misunderstand it...they are guaranteeing if they say it's red it's red?

 

Cmon...this is a joke. I don't think you can even have a serious discussion about this false claim.

 

All I see are RB Lincolns that turned in PCGS Red holders all over the place.

 

What is this, some kind of joke???!!!

 

Be real.

 

 

You know they'll snake their way around that 'guarantee', they can't afford to do otherwise.

Mike, in fairness to PCGS (and NGC, for that matter), the owners of non-"RD" copper coins labeled "RD" need to try to utilize the guarantees to find out if it's a "joke" or not.

 

There are certainly many copper coins labeled "RD" which are in fact "RB". But the more important consideration is what PCGS and NGC do about it when presented with such coins under their guarantees.

Let's have some real-life experience/feedback on that subject?

[James_OldeTowne]

How do you keep them from turning anyway?

The best way that I have learned of (but never tried, and never will) is to lacquer the coin. In fact, I've been told it's the only way to fully protect red copper, yet still make it viewable.

 

You can, of course, seal such a coin in an evacuated metallic shell, for example, but that would prevent viewing of the coin.

[MBA101]

So how can there be any old red copper, say from the 17 and 1800's? At least in an un-lacquered state anyway?

[okbustchaser]

By having removed the old lacquer.

[James_OldeTowne]

Exactly.

[MikeKing]

Unless I misunderstand it...they are guaranteeing if they say it's red it's red?

 

Cmon...this is a joke. I don't think you can even have a serious discussion about this false claim.

 

All I see are RB Lincolns that turned in PCGS Red holders all over the place.

 

What is this, some kind of joke???!!!

 

Be real.

 

 

You know they'll snake their way around that 'guarantee', they can't afford to do otherwise.

Mike, in fairness to PCGS (and NGC, for that matter), the owners of non-"RD" copper coins labeled "RD" need to try to utilize the guarantees to find out if it's a "joke" or not.

 

There are certainly many copper coins labeled "RD" which are in fact "RB". But the more important consideration is what PCGS and NGC do about it when presented with such coins under their guarantees.

Let's have some real-life experience/feedback on that subject?

 

I think you're being too kind.

Yes, I'd like real-life experiences. Tally 5,000 of them, give me the average and I might believe the result...might. whatever it is.

 

Look at all the RB coins in Red holders out there and seriously, do you actually think the tpg's would come true on their 'guarantee' and not argue that the RB is actually Red?

 

Give me a break.

 

Simple observation says they cannot uphold to that degree such a ludicrous guarantee, one that is so blatantly out of control by virtue of the seemingly endless supply of RB under the title of R. Unless the guarantee was started AFTER the green holders, and matte proof lincolns aren't included in this guarantee.

 

 

[66rb]

I too seem to see a lot of 'RD' slabbed copper that has obviously turned to RB or even BN. All copper will eventually turn, unless it is stored in a place with zero oxygen and humidity. Here's an interesting bit taken from a past ANR auction, about Civil War Veteran Benjamin Collins, around 1924.

 

In his twilight years, in 1924, he noted in The Numismatist how he went about his collecting of large cents. He described how he obtained "the best possible specimens, retaining them in my cabinet in the face of most tempting offers and only dispensing of one when a more perfect or desirable cent took its place ... perfect condition should be our aim." A perfect cent, to the finicky Mr. Collins, would show no evidence of "vandalism, nicks, oiling, tooling, holes, cleaning, cabinet friction and certain absence in toto of corrosion" and he would scoff at modern premiums on RD coins, saying "any fixed color, light olive preferred, though black or dark very acceptable. Red secondary which, though beautiful, will not stay put." A realist and a perfectionist are rarely the same person, but Collins was both.

 

Taken from a lot description here.

[MBA101]

I too seem to see a lot of 'RD' slabbed copper that has obviously turned to RB or even BN. All copper will eventually turn, unless it is stored in a place with zero oxygen and humidity. Here's an interesting bit taken from a past ANR auction, about Civil War Veteran Benjamin Collins, around 1924.

 

In his twilight years, in 1924, he noted in The Numismatist how he went about his collecting of large cents. He described how he obtained "the best possible specimens, retaining them in my cabinet in the face of most tempting offers and only dispensing of one when a more perfect or desirable cent took its place ... perfect condition should be our aim." A perfect cent, to the finicky Mr. Collins, would show no evidence of "vandalism, nicks, oiling, tooling, holes, cleaning, cabinet friction and certain absence in toto of corrosion" and he would scoff at modern premiums on RD coins, saying "any fixed color, light olive preferred, though black or dark very acceptable. Red secondary which, though beautiful, will not stay put." A realist and a perfectionist are rarely the same person, but Collins was both.

 

Taken from a lot description here.

 

Way cool!