Rare 300 + Year Old Catholic Prayer Card

[EZ_E]

...it is a 300 year + Catholic prayer card with contempory cloth incorporated in the design. If anyone could provide input into who the engraver, I. Wagnus, is or what executed A.V. means then your input would be appreciated.

 

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

St. Barbara

 

Barbara lived in the 4th century and brought up as a heathen. A tyrannical father, Dioscorus, had kept her jealously secluded in a lonely tower which he had built for that purpose. Here, in her forced solitude, she gave herself to prayer and study, and contrived to receive instruction and Baptism in secret by a Christian priest.

 

Barbara resisted her father's wish that she marry. Then on one occasion, during her father's absence, Barbara had three windows inserted into a bathhouse her father was constructing. Her purpose was thereby to honor the Trinity.

 

Dioscorus was enraged by her action and by her conversion. So he himself denounced her before the civil tribunal. She was horribly tortured, and at last was beheaded. Her own father, merciless to the last, acted as her executioner. God, however, speedily punished her persecutors. While her soul was being borne by angels to Paradise, a flash of lightning struck Dioscorus, and he was hurried before the judgment seat of God.

 

The life of St. Barbara is a vivid reminder that there can be much anger in our world and in our lives. Being in touch with God's presence in a very special way can do much toward relieving ourselves of our tendency to allow anger to control us.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

"Wangus" is a Gothic word and describes cutting down trees in an acorn forest.

[PerryHall]

Very interesting. How can you tell the age of this card? Is there a date somewhere on the card?

[michael]

a rare superb card and a late 1600's prayer card

 

emphermia

 

truly rare indeed

[EZ_E]

There's no date and it is most definitely an esoteric item that was tucked away in an old bible for centuries in a convent/monastary. This is what was responsible for its great preservation and it is worthy of being in a museum. The age is determined by it's known history. It could also be dated by the weave of the cloth, but that would take a specialist to determine.

[Hoot]

Had to look this one up, michael!

 

Ephemera - Printed or written items produced for short-term use, as tickets, posters, and greetings cards.

Ephemerist - a person who collects (printed or written) ephemera.

 

Hoot

[MikeKing]

Victor, may I ask how you came upon this card? Is it in your posession?

It needs to be protected in mylar. If you could use a mylar slip with a backing to support it, I can send you some archival stuff to safely put it in. PM me if so.

[EZ_E]

Mike, I just noticed the play on words for your website address (mikingdom.org). Very clever.

 

I've had the card for about 2 years now and it has been sealed in mylar since then. I had to literally cut it out in order to take the picture you see. The card's dimensions are approximately 4" by 6". PM on the way.

[texasrichard]

Truly remarkable. Thanks for sharing.

[michael]

well there is no date on some ancient greek coins but they are easily dateable

 

same with this prayer card with proper understanding and research as such and with google and some church history as such easy to convey an approximate date

 

 

Holy Cards are small images of Christian saints or other entities that are distributed primarily to members of the Catholic Church. They often are imprinted with a sample prayer or oracion on the reverse, They may be tucked in one's wallet or purse, pinned to a car's windshield visor, or placed on an altar for contemplation while burning candles. the faithful in centuries past most could not read let alone write and when visiting shrines of popular saints of the 17th century for example germany was an extremely popular place for pilgrimages and as such a rememberance would be a printed prayer card with a popular saint on it also with some piece of colth touched to the relics of the saint that a pilgrim could take with them and look on the card as a rememberance and visually this was done for the illeterate masses with pictures of the saints

 

these cards as easily dated by the printers marks and also the paper and saint as this saint was extrermely popular on this specific card in germany in the late really late 1600's and of course being a german printer this card can be dated within reason

 

currently from my limited research this card still remains a mystery as to a sourse for the printer or whewre he practised but so many were madfe and more lost! thruoghout the years as this is what emphemeria is from it is not lasting

 

somehow this card made its way to a bible and kept there and as books were valuable and expensive it come to america with so many german immigrants looking for a better life and was discovered and given for care to an specific order monsatery and the local helper of this monastery after being collected by the founders of this specific monastery for well over 100 years only three like this were discovered and usually these older prayer cards are so rare that many have not seen as such let alone know what they are and much more scholarship needs to be done in the future

 

excessively rare but the collectors are rarer but i guess all it takes is one

 

a beaituful card in great condition and with period late 1600's rare quality materials sandwiched inbetween the card

 

sweet card victor

 

with so much more to tell but i do not have the time here as no one knows let alone cares

 

okie back to federal coinage

 

this card is RRRR which is the highest degree and magnitude of rarity

[Hoot]

Interesting information, Michael. Thx. Glad you posted this Victor.

 

Mark.

[EZ_E]

Thanks, Mark. So, Mike's explanation of cloth touching a relic explains why there is cloth in the pattern.

 

Imagine, this is extremely well preserved cloth from, most likely, a dress from the 15th century. How cool is that?!

 

[Hoot]

Imagine, this is extremely well preserved cloth from, most likely, a dress from the 15th century. How cool is that?!

 

Too good for an old hillbilly like you, so please send to me - a refined mountain man.

 

Hoot

[Bruceswar]

I have seen this card in person! It is a beauty! WOW!

[WoodenJefferson]

Me thinks you might earn a spot on a forth coming "Antiques Roadshow" with an item as such, wouldn't that be cool?

 

Baffle those experts for awhile!

 

I can hear them now, "I've met with a few of my colleagues and we have all come to the conclusion that this....."

[supertooth]

Victor-----Was waiting to see if we had any other 'old' Catholics out there. Michael seems to have come through. So, now I will tell you as I remember it. Keeping in mind that, as the years have rolled on, my exact recollection may not be totally exact.

 

In the 1950's, I was taught by the Sisters of Saint Joseph. At that time, the nuns would pass out 'holy cards' as rewards for doing things correctly--or for your extra efforts in their behalf. Most of these cards had a special prayer to that saint written on them. For saying that prayer, the card holder was given so many days of indulgence. You could reduce your time in Purgatory by saying the card's prayer. The card was marked with say '100' days of indulgence----or '200' days. Naturally, the larger numbered cards were sought after----as we kids did not want to go to Hell----or Purgatory for that matter.

 

Every once in awhile, you would see a card with a piece of clothing attached. We were told that the Saint's clothing had been used. This was a special card. You had to really be good to get those cards given to you. That card carried a higher number of days worth of indulgences.

 

There were 1st, 2nd, and 3rd class relics. First class relics were usually pieces of the actual body of the Saint----mostly their 'bone' pieces. These fragments were many times stored inside of the elaborate jewelry ladened chalices that the Church uses at Mass. They were honored pieces of workmanship----especially made for the priests---used mostly at "HIGH MASSES". Your church was special if it had a chalice with a first class relic imbedded in the chalice. First class relics are also placed in a small stone that "must" be present for 'any' priest to say Mass. That stone is usually imbedded into the altar---over which the priest consecrates the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ during the Mass.

 

A second class relic was one that had the clothing or something that had touched the Saint while they were alive. Maybe something that they had blessed during their lives. I surmise that your card, Victor, could be a second class relic. It would have been a priviledge to possess one. And, you would have placed it in a 'special' place----like your bible. Or, somewhere like a small family shrine----where prayers could be said and candles lit as offerings to the Saint during the day. I have been trying to remember what the A.V. means. I just for the life of me cannot bring it to my memory at the moment. A senior moment for sure. It is most likely a Latin abbreviation. Since I had 5 years of Latin, I should remember.

 

A third class relic would be just like the 'holy cards' that the sisters gave to us kids. I have still many of them. I really value those times. And, yes, I do believe. These cards would have been blessed by the parish priest before being given out by the nuns. Also, a bishop might have blessed the third class relics. The more ceremony that was attached to the relic, the more the Faithfull valued it.

 

You can find 'many' religious items for sale on Ebay. We would NEVER sell an item of a religious nature. That would have been 'sacrilegious'. And, both the fear of God and the nuns would have kept you on the right path. Remember, in those days, the nuns used a lot of yardsticks. IMHO---what is missing in a proper education these days.

 

Well, I could ramble on more. But that is the basis for your card. Since it is soooo old, it would probably be considered rare. You could get more information by talking to an old priest----especially a Jesuit or a special religious order priest. They will have that kind of thing right on the tip of their tongue. Just talk to one about 70 years of age. After the Masses were said in English and not Latin----about 1973----things changed a lot within the Church. We slowly lost most of the nuns. And a lot of things were lost with them. Bob [supertooth]

[MikeKing]

...

 

In the 1950's, I was taught by the Sisters of Saint Joseph...

 

there you go again...dating yourself....and me!!!

Sisters of Saint Joseph all the way up until High School.

My sister (biologic) had them in High School (actually, in retrospect ,and she is in higher education, she believes they were the best educators she ever had).

 

I had a chance a couple of years ago of obtaining a 13th century crucifix and I let it go by. I cannot tell you how much I regret that (and actually, it was in Germany). My Grandfather SOLD ( ) a marble, religious, carving that was embedded in the doorway of his house (in Tuscany) that later on was identified as a true Michaelangelo, which ended up in a museum.

 

These religious objects are full of history and have great sentimental, and spiritual value.

 

Good luck with your card, Victor!

[supertooth]

Mike King-----Used to laugh at the old folks about their memories. Now, I am the one with the memories. Like you, a few years ago, I passed up a crucifix. If you remember, the nuns wore their beads at their sides. They prayed during the day---whenever they had the spare moment of opportunity. At the end of the rosary beads hung a silver crucifix---black background---about 3" by 5". A few years ago, I saw an original one on Ebay. Knew it was from the sisters of Saint Joseph. Emotions poured thru me. Mostly felt sooooo badly that folks would SELL a nuns' crucifix. In the end, I passed on it. Regret it till this day----as a holy woman had used it.

 

After the nuns, I had 8 years with the Jesuits. Then dental school. In all seriousness, like your sister, I would not trade that education that I got----for anything that could be provided today. Those years formed the person that I am today----as well as my two children. These days the Church takes a beating over many things----some deserved. But, in my day, I would only praise those nuns----as I do till this day.

 

Have often thought of collecting 'papal' coins. One day I may buy a book and check it out. It would be a tangent worth tackling. And, it would provide a rich History as well. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the Jesuits struck the first papal coins. They still to this day run Rome. Bob [supertooth]

[EZ_E]

Bob, if you can ever come up with what "A.V." means then I would appreciate it.

 

I'm not catholic but I have some very fond memories of some nuns. When I was in the Navy in the late '80's, I went on a Christian retreat held in a monastery in the Chicago area. Those nuns were so sweet and set such a Godly example that I will always have very fond memories of them.

 

As I mentioned, I have had this card for over two years and this is the first time I have have shared it with anyone. It is a wonderful piece that I treasure.

 

I also have one other very interesting artifact. I have a Waltham Pocket watch that was made in 1918 that actually belonged to Clyde Lawrence Barrow of Bonnie and Clyde fame. It has his initials CLB engraved on the reverse as well as special serial numbers on it. I got it from an old neighbor in 1991 who gave it to me to keep it from being lost to history. Some in the 1970's robbed a museum in Nevada and stole this piece as well as other Bonnie and Clyde artifacts. I called the only casino/museum that currently displays their memorabilia but they never contacted me back. What was cool was that the watch had a picture of Bonnie and Clyde in the back of the watch where the back screws off. Bonnie had a hat cocked down over her eye but the bonehead who stole the piece threw the photo away thinking that it would be incriminating. Geez! Anyway, I treasure this piece, too. If I could get documentation on it then it would be worth c. $20K based upon a watch of his that sold for that amount in 1997.

[michael]

superb great information

 

bob super tooth and extremely well written also

 

thanks

 

 

 

http://sill-www.army.mil/pao/pabarbar.htm

 

 

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintb01.htm

[EZ_E]

a.v. ad valorem. "In proportion to the value of [something else]." Literally, "To the value." Usage: "The monetary worth of the dollar is figured a.v. the price of gold."

 

WoodenJefferson just PM'd me this definition. So, exe. A.V. could mean that this prayer card was executed to propitiate X amount of sins.

 

I don't know. It is just supposition.

 

 

And, Mike:

 

My Grandfather SOLD ( ) a marble, religious, carving that was embedded in the doorway of his house (in Tuscany) that later on was identified as a true Michaelangelo, which ended up in a museum.

 

That really hurts, man. He's one of my heros in life, even though his life was a sad one. Rafael was his younger contempory and professional rival in the early 1500's. This was a good thing. On the other extreme, the pope made his life extremely difficult and personally unfulfilled.

[supertooth]

Victor-----I should have gotten this sooner. But with Wooden Jefferson's help to you, I think that I have it now.

 

All the holy cards of the Church----as well as all bibles etc.----any Church written papers. Everything had to have an "Imprimatur" or approval given to said writings or holy cards. This "Imprimatur" was given by a bishop---archbishop--or cardinal. The Pope himself gives this "Imprimatur" when he writes any encyclicals on anything related to Faith or morals.

 

I think that the I.Wagnus was that bishop or archbishop or cardinal who gave the "Imprimatur" for this card. The ' ad valorem' would then have meant the number of days indulgence [as I had mentioned in an earlier post] that the card was worth if you prayed to that Saint or read the prayer on the holy card. That then would make sense----there just was not a number of days of indulgence ever printed on the card. Bob [supertooth]

[EZ_E]

Well, Bob, I believe the mystery is most likely solved. Thank you very much for your input into this thread and to everyone else. It is a fascinating bit of history very rarely seen preserved. Thanks again.

 

Victor

[michael]

I think that the I.Wagnus was that bishop or archbishop or cardinal who gave the "Imprimatur" for this card. The ' ad valorem' would then have meant the number of days indulgence [as I had mentioned in an earlier post] that the card was worth if you prayed to that Saint or read the prayer on the holy card. That then would make sense----there just was not a number of days of indulgence ever printed on the card. Bob [supertooth]

 

 

superb and correct

 

mystery solved

[RWB]

Excellent ephemeral post!

[michael]

please pm me i got two left i am currently caring for and they need to go to good adoptive homes

 

i had three total one went to victor a few years ago and i got two left which i have had for a decade or two

[EZ_E]

please pm me i got two left i am currently caring for and they need to go to good adoptive homes

 

i had three total one went to victor a few years ago and i got two left which i have had for a decade or two

 

 

 

 

[comicAL]

Hi, EZ_E and fellow forum members

 

A fascinating set of posts from all of you.

Yes, having had an elementary school Catholic education at St. Joseph Academy I enjoyed the reminisces of fellow Catholic school attending forum members.

 

There were five of us children in my family so my father could only afford to keep my older sister attending Catholic schools through high school graduation. The rest of us finished our educations in public schools. Our educations were years ahead of the rest of the fellow students!

 

This holy card is just a great piece of Catholic history, thank you for sharing with us.

 

AAJ

[EZ_E]

To The Top

[Ted K-migration]

While not a Catholic, I certainly appreciate the historic and artistic significance of such an item. The idea that something was made so beautifully that long ago and that it's beauty and fragility has survived an immense amount of history passing it by is a truly marvelous thing. One might even say "miraculous". I think most people (and certainly coin collectors ) can get lost in ideas of gold and silver when the word "treasure" is mentioned, but this would certainly qualify in my book. It truly is something to cherish and keep good care of.

 

As far as the monetization of items like this, I think everyone has some things that would cause dismay if seen on sale, and despite not being of the faith, this and some of the other things mentioned being on sale would cause me some distress, but I believe it to be an unfortunate inevitability of an increasingly consumerist world. It's a tricky spot, because while many things deserve a place in a museum or somewhere that all can see, space is limited. The optimist in me would hope that these sorts of things, if sold, find their way into the hands of someone who will treasure them as they should be, be it a secular artistic perspective or something else. The realist reminds me that a lot of these things are little more than commodities for some, though maybe they will pass through the commodity-minded hands and into the optimist's hands of someone who will take good care of them.

 

This line of thought was inspired by seeing stolen cuneiform tablets being sold on ebay, and a thought I had at that point of buying them and sending them off to museums, as words and writing hold a special place in my heart. It is a complicated thing, but I try to retain some optimism in the face of such special things being bought and sold simply for monetary gain.

[EZ_E]

That was a wonderful post, Ted. Thank you.