"Hot Topics" from Legend Numismatics

[WoodenJefferson]

"Hot Topics"

 

This has got to be written by Laura (grammatical/spelling errors)

 

FYI only, probably has owner spam.

[LuvToCollect]

Is this written by the same lady that caused the stir at FUN ? Seems like there is a bit of anger in that post.

[pendragon1998]

Geeze, can we please leave the Laura/Legend posts across the street?

[WoodenJefferson]

Geeze, can we please leave the Laura/Legend posts across the street?

 

This is not from ATS

 

This article, not a post or thread, is from the Legend Web-site!

[WoodenJefferson]

Is this written by the same lady that caused the stir at FUN ? Seems like there is a bit of anger in that post.

 

There is no author mentioned, but by all the mistakes contained in the article, one has to assume that it is one in the same.

 

The author even mentions the incident of the "film" coming off a graded coin at the FUN show...much to the surprize to everyone.

 

Did not mean to rile any feathers here...thought this board (Tangents) was to disseminate information controversial or not?

[just-john]

I don't know anything or anybody.But i could hear Deaperation in her words?????

[jgrinz]

Its Laura ...

[Zoins]

While Laura's delivery may not always be the most professional, she does bring up food for thought. It's not necessary to agree with her but thinking about the issues she raises and coming up with your own conclusions can sometimes be a good thing. Other times, her posts can be good for plain entertainment value.

 

Over-graded coins in TPG slabs are the natural result of inconsistent grading and the crack out game that takes advantage of it. This has been mentioned many times by a number of people, suggesting that coins will/have end up over-graded in their "terminal holders." It just makes sense that this would be one natural result of how the market is currently working.

 

I found the article worth the time. Thanks for posting it.

[JamminJ]

"Hot Topics" are self promotion. Nothing more, nothing less.

[DC Dawg]

Regardless of who it is, the author has a point--so does Zoins.

Too many people are relying on the TPG to get it right but when it comes down to it, these are human beings with human issues making human decisions. While I am sure that these humans are trying to do the best job they can, I am also sure they are aware of the ramifications of one point in grading any coin.

 

In other posts, we have discussed what makes a coin an MS-70 versus a lower grade, especially when a rim ding is noticed in the picture. We have discussed what has happened to the industry with the introduction of the Internet. There were also discussions on the cost of metals and the impact on numismatics. This has not been lost on the public and they are responding.

 

But that's the problem, the public is responding and not educating. Rather than educating, they talk with dealers who talk about their business and not the business overall. So when they go to an online auction, they see something different, as questions of less than experts, and get a negative impression of dealers. So who do they trust? The TPG. Why? Well, they're professionals, they should know. Right?

 

Does this effect the TPGs? They will tell you that it has no effect. But it has to. This implicit trust placed by the uneducated public has casued an increase in their business because of people submitting more coins for grading. Not just rare coins, but moderns, too. Does this volume effect the process? It has to, especially when customers are waiting months for coins to be graded. The effect on the throughput of the TPGs has to compromise their system.

 

What the author of the article missed is the saying "buy the coin, not the holder." Although the author sounds angry, I would agree with the sentiment behind the words, regardless of who it is.

 

That's just my opinion!

 

Scott

[James_OldeTowne]

First, MY DEFINITION of quality is: Buy the BEST eye appealing, NON messed with coin for the grade.

I find the author's definition of "quality" positively useless, so that right there is enough to tell me that the rest of the article will have no value for me.

[MikeKing]

First, MY DEFINITION of quality is: Buy the BEST eye appealing, NON messed with coin for the grade.

I find the author's definition of "quality" positively useless, so that right there is enough to tell me that the rest of the article will have no value for me.

 

i agree.

the original quote is entirely self serving and equates to coin dealers telling you to put all the money you have into the 'best' you can afford, which is quintessentially contrary to what a REAL collector would and should do and what a REAL sucker and slave to the dealing arbitrage will do.

 

 

There may be truth to a particular "hot topic" but as with other rhetoric, it is never substantiated (there is not one example shown, not one name named, not one circumstance documented), and the ultimate conclusion the unwary reader is expected to make is that that writer has THEIR best interest at heart and you can sink ALL your mega money into the coins THAT dealer has because you can trust them. Why? because they say so.

[MarkFeld]

Sadly and understandably, I think numerous people lose sight of the excellent advice that Laura often gives, due, primarily to her delivery. For example, in the current "Hot Topics" edition, the points that I get out of it are that 1) there is no substitute for "quality"; 2) there are far too many "quality" grades assigned to coins which don't deserve it; 3) collectors are advised not to settle for over-graded junk and 4) buy "quality" coins.

 

While that advice is certainly not anything revolutionary, I believe it is extremely sound, fundamentally and can apply to any type and grade of coins. Contrary to what some people apparently think, it is also non-elitist and doesn't include the notion that only Legend sells the right coins. Ignore the messenger if you prefer or must, but heed the message.

[James_OldeTowne]

Sadly and understandably, I think numerous people lose sight of the excellent advice that Laura often gives, due, primarily to her delivery.

Hi Mark! To be honest with you, the delivery, though awfully annoying, isn't my problem. I just think the so-called "information" is fraught with errors and poor advice.

[MarkFeld]

Sadly and understandably, I think numerous people lose sight of the excellent advice that Laura often gives, due, primarily to her delivery.

Hi Mark! To be honest with you, the delivery, though awfully annoying, isn't my problem. I just think the so-called "information" is fraught with errors and poor advice.

James, what information/advice do you find to be "poor"? Thanks.

[James_OldeTowne]

I was just about to summarize. Here is what I think, and below, I've included a transcript of the article except for bolded paragraphical summaries, which are mine:

 

Useful points:

 

(4) On second thought, "nice" is good enough - you don't necessarily ALWAYS have to worry about "quality".

(7) Don't buy certified coins sightUNSEEN.

(10) Adhere to your numismatic values.

 

Worthless or wrong points:

 

(1) It's me (Legend) against the world

(2) Everyone forgets what quality is.

(2) Dealers competing with Legend have no eye.

(3) Always buy "quality", which means the BEST for the grade.

(8) Saints are one of the most popular coins collected and are NEVER properly graded.

(12) Dealers competing with Legend are hypocrites.

 

 

* * *

 

(1) Hello everyone. I know its been a few months since I've written a HOT TOPIC article. It seems this business is so small that whenever I do say something-regardless of how truthful it is, someone somewhere suspends me, sends me threatening emails, starts rumors, bullys me, or whatever they want to do to cause me grief for calling it like it is. The denial levels I see in this business are remarkable and almost to a point where you can't change how the majority of "insiders" think or act. I had to take some time off from the abuse and stop writing HOT TOPICS to focus on some projects for Legend and some for the betterment of the hobby. You will see my efforts being carried out shortly for both. Like me or not, I am and will always be PRO consumer.

It's me (Legend) against the world

 

(2) I have to write this Hot Topics in generalties. While it frustrates me to do so, I feel sending out any message is better than sending none at all. So with that in mind, my Hot Topics article is focused on the fact everyone forgets what quality is. Dealers maniputale the sevices and each other to continually upgrade coins and make you feel good when you are buying their inferior product. Basically, they are forcing changes in what the word "quality" now means. There is also a big group of dealers out there who have no eye and wouldn't know a "quality" coin if it hit them in the head-they just want their upgrades. And then there are my pals the wannabes-they know nothing and clearly can't tell and AT coin from a wildly colored one and sell more of the dreck than anyone but the auctions and a few major retailers who just don't care. .

Everyone forgets what quality is. Competing dealers have no eye.

 

(3) First, MY DEFINITION of quality is: Buy the BEST eye appealing, NON messed with coin for the grade. The technical qualities of the coin will be top for what they are supposed to be for that specific date. Sure, a quality coin ranks higher up in grade to many (like 67 or 68), but having one of the BEST possible examples for the date-even if it is an AU coin is quality. I know of one major dealer who thinks any white Morgan pretty much should be a GEM MS65-that is NOT what quality is.

Always buy "quality", which means the BEST for the grade.

 

(4) Recenly at the FUN Show I was enraged by what the coins I saw being paraded around as "top quality". There were many doctored coins, along with several OVERGRADED coins that I saw. I can accept that a certain % (lets say 10%) of all coin graded could have problems, but then why do I keep running into the 10% at EVERY show and major auction? It has nothing to do wth my standards being tight-I am looking for NICE as I know it is unrealistic to buy high end coins everytime. Plus, I am sick and tired of seeing top pop sets in ANYONES holders that look like they should be ranked at the bottom. Those sets never realize anywhere near what they should and end up making the market look weak (which just happend to a some Indian Gold and Saint sets).

On second thought, "nice" is good enough - you don't necessarily ALWAYS have to worry about "quality".

 

(5) This is clearly becoming a TWO TIER marketplace. Classic rarities seem to be graded properly for the most part probably because they are out in the publics scrutiny. However, coins I like to call widgets, face the worst impact of gradeflation and are causing the market to spin in all directions-when he underlying body is healthy. Like when you vote, saying NO to the dreck will force the services to stop producing it. It will also over time (after the garbage is absorbed) help create more value for the better coins that are in holders. Sure, it will finacially hurt a few crackout dealers, and mayb even the grading services for a while, but more damage is being done overall to the market place by messing with coins or having them be overgraded.

I have no idea what this means.

 

(6) The public MUST recognize that "there is NO substitute for quality". Keep rejecting the bad stuff. If you want to secure your investment (for lack of a better term) do not buy junk. Even if you buy it super cheap, junk is still junk and faces the risk of falling in value. QUALITY coins will always have appeal and will continue to only get rarer as gradeflation steams on. This mantra can not be repeated enough.

see #3

 

(7) Third party grading is NOT a guarantee of a perfect coin. If you are going to build any kind of a collection, you need to get assitance from a professional. You should NEVER in this day and age, even with all the TPG;'s saying it is ok to do so, buy ANY coin sightUNSEEN unless its from someone you would trust with your life! You always MUST have eye appeal, techinical grade, and most important these days-the coin must be UNMESSED with. At the FUN Show I saw a SIX FIGURE coin that had unquestionably been messed with. PCGS investigated, agreed, and took action (when the coin was originally graded, there probably was no way the added substance could have been detected by PCGS). Now how would you have liked to have bought that coin sightUNSEEN and paid six figures? If you didn't know there was a problem you would have thought you bought a six figure coin cheap. However, when you go to sell it, you'd have one heck of an ugly coin and would lose money for sure unless a new "victim" was found. In this case, the owner clearly overpaid anyway, and ended up losing over 40% in less 8 months. Ouch! This is NOT an isolated incident (but then it does not happen everyday either). The point: you need to be sure that what you are buy IS REAL quality, especially if you are spending large sums.

Don't buy certified coins sightUNSEEN.

 

(8) The most abused area in numismatics is clearly Saints-which also hapoen to be one of the most popular coins collected (just about every body has a Saint). Except for the TPG's, no one would argue that there are problems. I NEVER see any properly graded by ANY service anymore. The other day, I looked at major dealers Saint inventory. His 65's had scrapes in the fields, putty, deep cuts, soft strikes, and you name it. I graded most 65's-63's at best. Now, if the Saints were properly graded, you'd have fewer GEMs and the values would easily be $2,000.00 or higher instead of $1,300.00. Demand would be much stronger as people would actually buy them because they like them instead of only buying them for commodity trading purposes. Even when the grading services tighten up on Saints, the crackout guys are on it-although they do very much pay a higher price for them. That actually is a pathetic situation, but DOES indeed confirm that "quality" does make a difference. Why are Saints so abused an non quality oreinted? Becuase so many of them get "rammed" through the grading services (we're talking about thousands a clip) by the major "crackout" dealers it does distort their grading of them. In the end, it doesn't matter who is to blame, there is a horrible non quality product (poorly graded Saints) out on the market place being forced on the public. Do not let your standards slip!

Saints are one of the most popular coins collected and are NEVER properly graded.

 

(9) Do NOT give in and buy a coin because it is in a piece of plastic which may be marketed as the best. The coin always has and always will matter. Even if you do not go to shows, either hire an expert, or have the coin sent to you to view. And if you hav trouble judeging qualty, here is a little trick that DOES very much work: ask anyone else around you-even if they don't know coins, is the coin you are looking at pretty? Do you see any problems? Pretty can be universal to everyone. You should not buy something that a dealer convinces you is pretty. You need to be able to show it to anyone and them say, yes that is pretty. "Pretty" or eye appeal is a HUGE part of quality. Plus, you don't have to know coins to see a whack or a stain from putty.

see #7

 

(10) So even if the overall standards are slipping a bit, yours should not. Yes, true quality WILL cost you more, but true quality WILL yield you more in the future. Try as hard as they might to move the grading curve yet again-true quality WILL be the coins people want. As more people buy bad coins and the weaker areas of the market collapse from it, the services WILL eventually get the hint. I can't wait for that day so things will start to improve!

Adhere to your numismatic values.

 

(11) NOTE: I AM NOT SINGLING OUT ANY GRADING SERVICE. WHAT I AM SAYING IS NOTHING THAT HASN'T BEEN SAID ON OTHER WEB SITES AFTER FUN.

OK...

 

(12) Most dealers won't publically comment on issues like these because they are either hypocrites (you'd be amazed how many of them are crackout dealers in the end) or want to suck up to the services. The quality/grading topic certainly should be an issue for EVERY major retail dealer, EVERY major consumer numismatic organization, and EVERY major publication. The amount of denial and insistance that there is nothing wrong-is classic greed. Take my word on this, there is a lot of dreck out on the market. We are not at the end of the numismatic world just yet, however we are at a point I believe where we do need to take actions to make sure the future is secure. I still am totally PRO certification, but I don't like a few trends I see developing.

dealers competing with Legend are hypocrites.

 

(13) REMEMBER, THERE IS NO SUBSITUTION FOR QUALITY!

see #3

[Zoins]

Useful points:

 

(4) On second thought, "nice" is good enough - you don't necessarily ALWAYS have to worry about "quality".

(7) Don't buy certified coins sight UNSEEN.

(10) Adhere to your numismatic values.

 

Worthless or wrong points:

 

(1) It's me (Legend) against the world

(2) Everyone forgets what quality is.

(2) Dealers competing with Legend have no eye.

(3) Always buy "quality", which means the BEST for the grade.

(8) Saints are one of the most popular coins collected and are NEVER properly graded.

(12) Dealers competing with Legend are hypocrites.

James,

 

Thanks for your analysis. Usually my BS detector automatically filters out a lot of blatantly bad points so it's easy to cherry pick the good ones.

 

If Laura/Legend implies that they are the only dealer that knows what they are doing or are worth listening to, I automatically write that off so it doesn't really bother me. However, I can understand other dealers being upset that some might read that post and lump them into the accusation. That basically covers points 1, 2, 2 and 12 for me - all bad points except numbers 3 and 8.

 

Regarding always buying "quality," I read that as pieces where investment potential is valuable. I've seen some evidence of this. Here, "ALWAYS" may be the word that some people get hung up on. I automatically translate "always" to "most of the time" since I don't believe in most absolutes. Using "most of the time" I don't have a problem with "buy quality most of the time" or "as a rule of thumb, buy quality."

 

I actually found the specific highlighting of Saints useful. I automatically discount words like "NEVER" and "ALL" so that doesn't bother me. I haven't looked at certified Saints in detail to form my own opinion but, ATS, many have agreed and shared anecdotal stories specific to Saints, including what they've seen on certified MS65s that they don't believe should be there. I found the what should and should not be on a MS65 Saint discussion very useful. It doesn't matter if that specifically wasn't in the article because it generated a discussion that had that information. Morgans in the MS65-66 range were also highlighted as an area of concern in the discussion.

 

Also, ATS, TDN has taken exception to "NEVER [...] buy ANY coin sightUNSEEN" as there are some where he says it doesn't matter. Translating it to "don't buy a coin sight unseen most of the time" seems to work better.

 

So, it seems like your big gripes are that Legend/Laura says they are better than everyone else and the use of absolutes like ALWAYS and NEVER. I automatically discount both assertions and would hope that most reasonable readers also do so.

[James_OldeTowne]

Actually, my biggest gripe is with the statement: "Quality is EVERYTHING". The problem is, quality is implied as having to be very expensive. Nowhere in the article do I see mentioned something such as a Barber half-dollar in VF-20, or a 1909-VDB Lincoln in MS-63 RB, or a 1835 Bust quarter in EF-40. To me, and to the huge majority of coin collectors out there, those are realistic coins, and "cost" has little bearing on "quality". So what I'm getting at is that in such an article as this, there always seems to be some kind of association between "quality" and "cost" implied, as if, the higher the cost, the higher the quality. That is rubbish to me. "Quality" comes in an endless array of shape and sizes, so to hinge an entire diatribe on a single word - "quality" - without ever explaining what that word is renders it useless to me.

 

C'mon, Legend, let's see some numsimatic articles for once, shall we?

[MikeKing]

Sadly and understandably, I think numerous people lose sight of the excellent advice that Laura often gives, due, primarily to her delivery. For example, in the current "Hot Topics" edition, the points that I get out of it are that 1) there is no substitute for "quality"; 2) there are far too many "quality" grades assigned to coins which don't deserve it; 3) collectors are advised not to settle for over-graded junk and 4) buy "quality" coins.

 

While that advice is certainly not anything revolutionary, I believe it is extremely sound, fundamentally and can apply to any type and grade of coins. Contrary to what some people apparently think, it is also non-elitist and doesn't include the notion that only Legend sells the right coins. Ignore the messenger if you prefer or must, but heed the message.

 

With all due respect, I did make a comment on the message, and I believe the points I made shouldn't be trivialized.

 

About the messenger? The messenger runs an elitist company and the message is self serving, the 'sound' advice a guise for self-aggrandizement.

 

This is like Madame Blavatsky and her following who created a movment based on letters written in her handwriting that mysteriously fell from the air delivering messages from the so called 'Mahatmas'.

 

I don't have the stamina that James has in his response, and the point he makes is entirely valid.

[MikeKing]

First, MY DEFINITION of quality is: Buy the BEST eye appealing, NON messed with coin for the grade.

I find the author's definition of "quality" positively useless, so that right there is enough to tell me that the rest of the article will have no value for me.

 

i agree.

the original quote is entirely self serving and equates to coin dealers telling you to put all the money you have into the 'best' you can afford, which is quintessentially contrary to what a REAL collector would and should do and what a REAL sucker and slave to the dealing arbitrage will do.

 

 

There may be truth to a particular "hot topic" but as with other rhetoric, it is never substantiated (there is not one example shown, not one name named, not one circumstance documented), and the ultimate conclusion the unwary reader is expected to make is that that writer has THEIR best interest at heart and you can sink ALL your mega money into the coins THAT dealer has because you can trust them. Why? because they say so.

 

I shouldn't have to quote myself but I will because my hands just can't re-type the obvious.

[Tradedollarnut]

Actually, my biggest gripe is with the statement: "Quality is EVERYTHING". The problem is, quality is implied as having to be very expensive. Nowhere in the article do I see mentioned something such as a Barber half-dollar in VF-20, or a 1909-VDB Lincoln in MS-63 RB, or a 1835 Bust quarter in EF-40. To me, and to the huge majority of coin collectors out there, those are realistic coins, and "cost" has little bearing on "quality". So what I'm getting at is that in such an article as this, there always seems to be some kind of association between "quality" and "cost" implied, as if, the higher the cost, the higher the quality. That is rubbish to me. "Quality" comes in an endless array of shape and sizes, so to hinge an entire diatribe on a single word - "quality" - without ever explaining what that word is renders it useless to me.

 

C'mon, Legend, let's see some numsimatic articles for once, shall we?

 

Your summary is rife with personal bias in your conclusions about what she is saying. Your most obvious error involves the fact that she makes a point to state that she's talking about the best quality for the grade, not the highest grade or price. Where are the bargains in numismatics? In many learned people's opinions it's in high end coins for the grade. Since quality is a continuum, but price tends to be in discreet lumps, you can get a just missed the next grade up coin for less of a premium than the quality difference between a just made it coin. That opinion isn't grade or price dependent - it works across the spectrum.

[MarkFeld]

...she makes a point to state that she's talking about the best quality for the grade, not the highest grade or price...

That's how I read it. The fact that MS65 Saints were used as an example instead of common date MS63 Morgan dollars, for instance, doesn't matter to me or change the message one iota.

[MarkFeld]

Sadly and understandably, I think numerous people lose sight of the excellent advice that Laura often gives, due, primarily to her delivery. For example, in the current "Hot Topics" edition, the points that I get out of it are that 1) there is no substitute for "quality"; 2) there are far too many "quality" grades assigned to coins which don't deserve it; 3) collectors are advised not to settle for over-graded junk and 4) buy "quality" coins.

 

While that advice is certainly not anything revolutionary, I believe it is extremely sound, fundamentally and can apply to any type and grade of coins. Contrary to what some people apparently think, it is also non-elitist and doesn't include the notion that only Legend sells the right coins. Ignore the messenger if you prefer or must, but heed the message.

 

With all due respect, I did make a comment on the message, and I believe the points I made shouldn't be trivialized.

 

About the messenger? The messenger runs an elitist company and the message is self serving, the 'sound' advice a guise for self-aggrandizement.

 

This is like Madame Blavatsky and her following who created a movment based on letters written in her handwriting that mysteriously fell from the air delivering messages from the so called 'Mahatmas'.

 

I don't have the stamina that James has in his response, and the point he makes is entirely valid.

Mike, to my knowledge, I didn't trivialize any one's points. I ceratinly didn't mean to and am sorry you took it that way. You, James and others are obviously free to view the information/advice and motives behind it any way you choose. Personally, however, I believe that from whatever point of view one reads it, there is good information to be had.

[James_OldeTowne]

Your summary is rife with personal bias in your conclusions about what she is saying.

Of course it is. Shouldn't it be? And so is the article. And so is this thread. I sure hope that "personal bias" still gets to play an extremely important role in numismatics, even today.

 

Your most obvious error involves the fact that she makes a point to state that she's talking about the best quality for the grade, not the highest grade or price.

I didn't miss this point, not one bit. In fact, the whole reason I felt compelled to respond to begin with (please re-read my very first post in this thread) is to point out that "quality" is undefined in this article, rendering the balance of the writing useless for me.

 

To me, an understanding of "quality" that coin collectors can actually find useful would have NO relation to "price" whatsoever (within the limits of what the collector can afford), but instead would have a numismatic basis.

 

...she makes a point to state that she's talking about the best quality for the grade, not the highest grade or price...

That's how I read it. The fact that MS65 Saints were used as an example instead of common date MS63 Morgan dollars, for instance, doesn't matter to me or change the message one iota.

For me, the fact that MS-65 Saints were used reinforces the impression that "quality" has some sort of mysterious basis on high cost, as in my experience, there are there are NO MS-65 Saints that wouldn't be viewed as "expensive" by the large majority of coin collectors.

 

Edited to address the following question:

Where are the bargains in numismatics? In many learned people's opinions it's in high end coins for the grade.

Bargains abound in numismatics - not as you say in "high-end coins", but rather in coins that people can afford and enjoy.

 

If I pay $50 for a coin, enjoy the heck out of owning it for five years, then sell it at a $10 loss, was that a bargain? I would say Yes, because I enjoyed owning it. On the other hand, if I pay $50 for a coin I care little about, then sell it two weeks later for $100, was that a bargain? I guess if money is your thing, then yes, but numsimatically, that would be a lousy investment to me, not a bargain at all. It means I tied up $50 in something I care nothing about, rather than a coin I could have owned at the same price and enjoyed for years.

 

"Bargain" should not be measured in dollars, but rather in enjoyment, to me.

[Zoins]

Regarding MS65 Saints as the example, Legend is a business and the article is focused on their specific target customer segments for whom I assume MS65 Saints are not a hard swing. Since it's on their corporate website, it's important to take into account the people they are trying to reach. I don't think Legend sells $50 coins.

 

From what I've seen, Laura is more concerned about people spending (what she considers) foolishly on expensive coins and isn't as concerned about $50 coins. I agree with this. Lower priced coins don't have as big of an impact on one's overall financial position and so can be treated differently. I think this is to be inferred from the article and the fact it's from Legend.

[Tradedollarnut]

Bargains abound in numismatics - not as you say in "high-end coins", but rather in coins that people can afford and enjoy.

 

You continue with the baseless 'class warfare' comments. I said high end coins for the grade and I made it very clear I was talking about all grades, all price levels.

 

If you continue to intentionally twist what I'm saying to your own ends, there's no point in discussing this, eh?

[MikeKing]

not only do I believe what I had to say was trivialized, I've never seen any real numismatic contributions come from the pen of the writer being discussed in this thread.

 

I will give an example of a dealer who makes contributions to numismatics, his name is Douglas Winter. He is not a friend of mine, so there's no bias in those terms. I'm not a dealer, so there's no bias in those terms either, indeed, as a collector, I've never purchased a single coin from him. But as a collector, I'm entirely biased...I expect real information for collectors should be applauded and misleading self serving rhetoric should be criticized.

[James_OldeTowne]

Bargains abound in numismatics - not as you say in "high-end coins", but rather in coins that people can afford and enjoy.

 

You continue with the baseless 'class warfare' comments. I said high end coins for the grade and I made it very clear I was talking about all grades, all price levels.

 

If you continue to intentionally twist what I'm saying to your own ends, there's no point in discussing this, eh?

I was referring to the article, not what you said. How am I "twising words"? I think most folks who read the article will have the impression that it focuses on expensive coins. Having just read it again, nowhere do I have the impression that it is intended to target a broad spectrum of coin collectors. It definitely gives the impression of targeting people who spend a lot on coins. That's a miniscule fraction of the total number of folks collecting coins.

 

I'd appreciate it if you could kindly point out those phrases in the article which imply that a broad spectrum of collectors, from those spending $1 to $100,000 is implied. In the meantime, I'll point out some of those phrases that imply to me that "quality" is measured only in terms of how much a coin costs (with my admittedly somewhat sarcastic comments in parenthetical italics):

 

Buy the BEST (because good enough just isn't good enough anymore)

 

The technical qualities of the coin will be top

 

a quality coin ranks higher up in grade to many (like 67 or 68) (because of course, a quality coin can't grade, say VG or so)

 

Keep rejecting the bad stuff

 

junk is still junk and faces the risk of falling in value (naturally, something that doesn't generate monetray profit can never be worth owning)

 

If you are going to build any kind of a collection, you need to get assitance from a professional (you're not as smart as a professional)

 

You always MUST have eye appeal, techinical grade (always??)

 

at the FUN Show I saw a SIX FIGURE coin (ooh, now we're talking stuff I can afford)

 

If you didn't know there was a problem you would have thought you bought a six figure coin cheap (when EVER can something at six figures be thought of as "cheap"?)

 

especially if you are spending large sums (sorry)

 

Saints-which also hapoen to be one of the most popular coins collected (just about every body has a Saint) (actually, most collectors I know, for example, in my coin club, do not own even a single Saint - in fact, I can probably think of at least fifteen series off the top of my head that are more popular than Saints, so how can Saints be "one of the most popular coins"? expensive, yes of course, but are they REALLY all that popular?)

 

GEMs and the values would easily be $2,000.00 or higher (oh yeah, I can afford those in bunches!)

 

hire an expert (that's always an affordable option)

 

true quality WILL cost you more (of course it is, since more cost means more better, right?)

[Tradedollarnut]

The article was posted on Legend's own website, so you'll just have to forgive them if it's tailored to Legend's customers.

 

She specifically goes out of her way to state that she's talking about quality for the grade - all grades. If you are so biased or blind that you desire to castigate her for preaching quality to her customers, so be it.

[James_OldeTowne]

The article was posted on Legend's own website, so you'll just have to forgive them if it's tailored to Legend's customers.

The link to the article was posted here on NGC's boards. These boards (unlike the article) DO appeal to a broad spectrum of collectors, and therefore, I think it a worthy cause to present an alternative opinion to what you now seemingly admit is a very narrow-minded article.

 

She specifically goes out of her way to state that she's talking about quality for the grade - all grades.

But in my mind, there are also too many instances (as I've cited above) associating "quality" with "expensive" to be a mere coincidence. It makes me think she specifically goes out of her way to do this. And again, since these NGC boards are read by a broad spectrum of collectors, you must admit that it is only fair to present mutliple points of view on any topic that is brought up for discussion.

 

I'm through with this line of discussion, and genuinely appreciate your time (and others') in responding to my comments.