It's like PCGS is scrambling to hide evidence or something...

[Conder101]

Mike, incidentally, is a very active EAC member, and surprisingly, doesn't care for slabs at all. But he views their research as an endeavor completely separate from numismatics.

I wouldn't quite say that. It is true that I greatly oppose the entire concept of third party grading, but I do support certification/authentication. I oppose slabs because I prefer to handle my coins and "feel" a connection to their history. But I will admit that the slabs do provide superior protection for the coins. Of course you could have almost as much protection at a much lower cost with the generic shells that are on the market.

 

The research is not separate from numismatics, but rather is a part of it. The history of certification and slabbing is a part of the history of numismatics and as such needed to be to be recorded. All of the companies that have come and gone have made their mark on that history and their stories should be told. After almost thirty years no one had made any efforts to collect that history. Well I had lived through it and seen how it developed. If no one else was going to do it, and since I have collected through the whole period, I felt I was probably qualified.

 

That looks like something I need to pick up. Sounds really cool.

Unfortunately Bruceswar, that probably isn't going to be possible for awhile. I only have two copies left and I have had several people ask for them. Yes I could have some more printed up, but I am hoping to have a new revised edition ready for publication within the year and it will contain about 50% more companies and varieties. And frankly I don't want to sell somone a book only to have a new revised copy come out shortly thereafter. If wouldn't be fair to the buyer. I'd love for you to have the information, but I'm not sure how I could do it and be fair to both you and to the people who bought copies of the book. I might consider burning additional copies of the CD version because that would be a low cost option for the new buyers and they wouldn't be out much when the new edition came out.

[bochiman]

Michael,

 

Your decision to not sell a book that will be outdated sometime soon is nice of you.

I think your solution is what you stated, burn the CDs and charge a nominal price. Also, you are doing right to let potential purchasers know that something knew, and updated, is on the horizon.

At that point, it is up to the person to decide if they are ok with the older info and price.

 

Let them choose

[James_OldeTowne]

Mike, thanks for the clarification. Put me down for the new book once it becomes available.

 

See you in St. Louis at the copper convention!

[Newmismatist]

I might consider burning additional copies of the CD version because that would be a low cost option for the new buyers and they wouldn't be out much when the new edition came out.

 

Put me on the list for one of those CDs - I'm not into all the versions of the various slabs, but I have my fair share of some of those vintage babys - toned coins come in many different slabs

[Conder101]

but I have my fair share of some of those vintage babys

Just from the major services or do you have some of the "off the wall" companies as well?

[mrearlygold]

Tom - Conder's threads covered the generations of both PCGS and NGC slabs. I know that his research covers a much broader scope of so-called grading companies, but I don't know if he's organized it into publishable form.

 

Well if it could be put into published form, my Wife would be happy to get it on website form and create a regular link ( I guess that's what it's called ) or menu button and make it an integral part of my website.

 

I think it would be a neat resource to have available

 

What do you think Condor?

[Vegas Silver]

I said it before, I'll say it again. They're hurting themselves with this heavy-handed policy. I completely disagree with his statement that "frankly, (the boards) don't seem to generate any significant revenue." The PCGS and NGC boards get a lot of beginners into serious collecting and keep a lot of people interested in it. I've made a number of purchases of graded coins since I started back into collecting, and a lot of them were a direct result of the interaction I've had with these message boards. I've never been more turned off to a service than I have been towards PCGS after this fiasco. I'll likely minimize my dealings with the company in the future. If I'm going to submit any coins for grading, I predict that I won't be going there - and not as a result of what Mark wrote, but because of the things PCGS did in response to it.

 

And to answer the number of people who state things like, "if I was a dinner guest at someone's house, I wouldn't bash them," I would say that while I wouldn't bash my host, I would feel free to disagree with him in a civil manner and to have a heatfelt discussion with him. If he kept cutting me off and finally told me to shut up when I disagreed with him, then threw my friends out one by one as they strongly protested it, I would simply leave and never eat with him again. If I previously did business with him, that would stop. I'd go to his neighbor's house for dinner, where I was treated with respect and allowed to respectfully speak my mind, even when I didn't agree with him. I'd do business with the friendly person who offered an equivalent product and gave me better treatment while we interacted.

 

PCGS just cut off their nose to spite their face. There were better ways to handle this if the lawsuit was an issue. They're going to lose business over this, I suspect.

 

I was gone for two weeks and when I returned Mark was gone! What exactly got him bammed? This will all hurt them before it is done.

[cullenbryant-migration]

ngc or if anacs comes back will be getting any submissions from me now.

 

i didn't realize what an aire of superiority that guy projects until he posted that thread. he must have forgotten that he was speaking to the paying customers.

 

not to say i won't eat up some of their server space, but they won't see anymore submission money. it's the way the market works, and there's other places to spend that perform essentially the same function.

 

his statement of the forum not generating any revenue was delusional, and yet may end up a self fulfilling prophecy. .

[SkyMan]

I was gone for two weeks and when I returned Mark was gone! What exactly got him bammed? This will all hurt them before it is done.

 

Vegas, my understanding is that Mark in his normal thoughtful way made some comments about the "First Strike" program (which I think all semi-knowledgeable collectors can agree is a travesty) and PCGS went ballistic.

[MikeKing]

the behavior PCGS exhibited is suggestive of an adult, with responsibilities, throwing a child-like tantrum, and in the process, hurting a lot of good people, and invariably themselves. It's a very very tiny version of tyrannical episodes well documented in History books of most tyrants, petty or otherwise, but still, eliciting similar behavioral responses in the 'survivors', the 'good soldiers', and the majority of decent sort that are still there, who just wish it never ocurred at all.

[MarkFeld]

I said it before, I'll say it again. They're hurting themselves with this heavy-handed policy. I completely disagree with his statement that "frankly, (the boards) don't seem to generate any significant revenue." The PCGS and NGC boards get a lot of beginners into serious collecting and keep a lot of people interested in it. I've made a number of purchases of graded coins since I started back into collecting, and a lot of them were a direct result of the interaction I've had with these message boards. I've never been more turned off to a service than I have been towards PCGS after this fiasco. I'll likely minimize my dealings with the company in the future. If I'm going to submit any coins for grading, I predict that I won't be going there - and not as a result of what Mark wrote, but because of the things PCGS did in response to it.

 

And to answer the number of people who state things like, "if I was a dinner guest at someone's house, I wouldn't bash them," I would say that while I wouldn't bash my host, I would feel free to disagree with him in a civil manner and to have a heatfelt discussion with him. If he kept cutting me off and finally told me to shut up when I disagreed with him, then threw my friends out one by one as they strongly protested it, I would simply leave and never eat with him again. If I previously did business with him, that would stop. I'd go to his neighbor's house for dinner, where I was treated with respect and allowed to respectfully speak my mind, even when I didn't agree with him. I'd do business with the friendly person who offered an equivalent product and gave me better treatment while we interacted.

 

PCGS just cut off their nose to spite their face. There were better ways to handle this if the lawsuit was an issue. They're going to lose business over this, I suspect.

 

I was gone for two weeks and when I returned Mark was gone! What exactly got him bammed? This will all hurt them before it is done.

Vegas silver, to my knowledge (though there may be more to the story that I don't know), I got banned for posting what follows below:

 

At the risk of being permanently banned, I have decided to speak up....

 

First, here are some things you should know which paint me in a bad light:

 

1) It was only yesterday when I said "For reasons I am not at liberty to divulge, this will be my last post here for 2006, if not longer", so you can't believe everything you hear from me.

 

2) I was previously warned by PCGS - this is not a quote - that as a PCGS dealer who was allowed to post on this forum (in effect, getting free advertising and the opportunity to do business with forum members, etc.) I was not to be overly critical of PCGS. I had admittedly pushed the envelope by starting threads on the "first strike" issue in which I was critical of PCGS and asked them to answer questions and provide some explanations, etc. At that time, I was also told not to post for a certain time period and to say nothing regarding what I was told or why I wasn't posting. I honored that request. That was the reason for my previous brief absence and mysterious silence some time ago.

 

3) I was told yesterday not to post here again until at least the FUN show, that I needed to talk to someone at PCGS first and not to say anything about it. So, I am admittedly ignoring, or, if you will, defying that order.

 

In case I have any credibility left, here is the rest of the story.......

 

I have been accused by one or more persons at PCGS of "bashing PCGS" in a recent thread or threads on the "first strike" issue. The thread or threads, incidentally, have been pulled by PCGS, so I don't have access to my comments. It is my recollection, however, that rather than "bashing PCGS", I was engaging in polite discussion and debate with other forum members regarding the "first strike" issue and some of the possible legal arguments that could be put forth in the pending lawsuits. I did not start the thread(s), I did not use the "F" word, and, if my memory serves me correctly, I did not say PCGS or NGC had necessarily done anything wrong. I do not believe for a moment, that in the eyes of any non-biased person who is not overly sensitive on the subject, I "bashed PCGS". Nor was it my intention to do so.

 

If PCGS cares to, I welcome them to show me and the forum where I "bashed PCGS" - all I ask is that they show my entire, unedited remarks. In fact, in a non-polite fashion, I have challenged someone at PCGS to back up their accusations.

 

PCGS obviously has the right to ban me, temporarily or permanently, if they choose to. I believe, however, that it is unfair to me and to other forum members, for them to tell me not to post, while hiding behind my silence and theirs, creating unnecessary speculation and/or concern, or the thought that I was playing games. Let them go on record, stating specifically why they are banning me - at least that might help prevent others from breaking the rules.

 

In case I am not allowed to post anymore (and, at this point, I won't, without their express permission), it's been my sincere pleasure to have participated here for the past four years. And that is a large understatement. I have made many friends and enjoyed myself greatly. Thanks to each of you and PCGS for that.

 

If anyone here ever has any questions I might be able to answer or needs any help that I might be able to provide, please feel free to contact me - I have a lot of pals here that I don't do any business with.

 

Sometimes we need to stand up and speak out on principle, and be willing to accept the consequences. I am willing to do that.

 

Sincerely,

Mark Feld

[fastrudy-migration]

Smoebody should call up Jim Cramer and ask about the collector's Universe Stock. I forgot the ticker symbol, but I am sure if this was done, Cramer would not give that stock "two thumbs up".

[1956Half-migration]

In the last fifteen minutes, I've just read two "support CoinGuy1" threads across the street. I'm not kidding, in the last three minutes, both have been zapped! What the heck are they doing over there?

 

 

Its called Censorship. It is one thing to post rules and enforce them, but this is way beyond that. In my opinion they are forcing the case to close the forums. Jackals. They didn't have the backbone to just say we don't want to deal with it any more folks, its been great, and shut it down. Nope, they showed their true colors on this public relations fiasco.

 

To PCGS!!