IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY

[cpm9ball]

I'm fed up with eBay. They obviously had a problem with this seller, mark6078 , but they let him finalize all of his listings so they could get their "cut" before they shut him down. It doesn't seem to matter to them how many buyers get the short end of the stick. Don't you think that eBay should have cut him off immediately to protect the buyers?

 

Chris

[supertooth]

Chris----I found out a long time ago---when I lost 600 bucks from trying to buy a gold coin from Italy----that Ebay just plain does not care---will not help in most cases---- Does not care if you get your purchase or not. One must do it on your own---or not do it at all. And, like me, if the problem is overseas----FORGET IT. Bob [supertooth]

[James_OldeTowne]

Anymore, I find eBay practically unuseable as a buyer, and I'm only willing to sell low-end stuff there, just to keep a little advertising presence going. But it has gone way downhill from where it was, say three years ago.

[Wihlborg]

it has gone way downhill from where it was, say three years ago.

 

I completely agree.

 

John

[DC Dawg]

I don't know... I keep hearing of people with problems on eBay and I have never seen it! I am as careful I can be as both a buyer and seller. I had only one problem with someone who did not ship a coin and couldn't get his story straight. So I learned to read the feedback before bidding.

 

Yes, I know feedback can be given out of rote and is sometime positive when it should not be. But I also learned how to read the feedback. A series of feedbacks that say "thanks" or "as advertised" are not exactly happy customers. I then start to look more carefully and read these feedbacks carefully. Too many tepid positive feedbacks are enough to turn me off.

 

I always ask questions. I never just trust the listing unless it is someone I know or have done business with in the past. If the seller cannot answer my questions, no matter who it is, I don't bid on the item. If the seller is put off by my questions and is rude on the response, I don't bid on the item. If the image stinks and they are not willing to try to fix the issue, I don't bid on the item. Finally, I try not to get emotional about a coin I am interested in buying. If I am not satisfied enough to bid online or if I was outbid, I move on to the next auction. There will be other opportunities later both on and off line!

 

As a seller, I try to do everything above board--or how I would like to be treated. I will refund over payments on combined purchases. I will answer questions to the best of my ability. I have sent inquirers new pictures of something I was selling. I communicate after the auction using the tools of my listing service (Ink Frog). And I will take almost anything back and refund money regardless of my stated return policy.

 

Yes, I have made mistakes and have refunded postage to fix them. I have had a few problems. But nothing major. Again, treat others how you would like to be treated. If you are not treated well, then use the eBay tools to block the person from bidding on your item. I have about about a dozen people on my "blocked" list.

 

Ebay is like any other open market. If you don't feel comfortable with the way things are done, don't bid. You don't walk into a store you don't know and buy from them if there are issues, why do you do it on eBay? Remember, it's your money, spend it wisely. Caveat Emptor!

 

Scott

[jgrinz]

As for buying and selling it is *spoon* shoot. I find you can develop some good business relationships through EBAY but ... there is always that one purchase OR one sale that gets you shaking your head.

I got caught in a money laudering scheme OUT OF THE COUNTRY. A coins set I purchased the seller never owned , the ONLY accepted payment was a Wire transfer through Western Union. BOTH EBAY and I LEARNED NOT TO DO IT ( AT ALL )and I was an Integral part of EBAY Communications concerning ANY WIRE TRANSFERS of any kind - Western Union or any otherway.This was about the time that they bought PAYPAL and I am sure thinking this may help any futher Problems of this type ( PAYPAL is not perfect but it definitely has helped the overall community )

I lost around 350 dollars but EBAY lost 1800 ... in this transaction

[MunkyMan95]

I fear not only for myself, but the unsuspecting buyer on eBay. With them advertising so much lately, a new person could get their money taken pretty easily, and they would not know what recourse they had.

[LuvToCollect]

I am more and more using Heritage and Teletrade due to recent concerns over ebay.(no capitalization needed)

[DC Dawg]

I fear not only for myself, but the unsuspecting buyer on eBay. With them advertising so much lately, a new person could get their money taken pretty easily, and they would not know what recourse they had.

I'm sorry... I just can't subscribe to "legislating" intelligence and common sense. We learned as children not to do something by experience. We learned not to touch the hot stove after being burned. We learned to pick up our feet or we tripped. We learned walls do not moves, doors have knobs to open, and riding a bicycle without falling. If the consumer is not going to make the effort to read the reports online, listen to those on the mainstream media (radio and television), or has their head in the sand (I want to place his head somewhere else ), then I have no sympathy for them.

 

I do think that eBay needs to do better with policing their site for people who are violating their policies and/or the applicable laws. I am in favor of limiting the number of negative feedbacks a user could receive before being kicked out of the bay. I am for a policy that says a user who receives a negative feedback cannot post retalitory feedback and that there be forced mediation to resolve the issue. I am for a temporary suspension of users who receive negative feedback for 1-3 days for sellers and buyers--where a seller cannot list during that time and auctions ending in that time period are cancelled and listing fees are not refunded. I am for the cancellation of auctions when a user is terminated, regardless of the auction status.

 

Otherwise, A fool and his money are soon parted.

 

Scott

[MarkFeld]

Chris, I'm not unsympathetic to your situation with Ebay and I feel they often fail to afford the protection they should to the good guys. But in this particular case, I see nothing in the feedback of the seller that would or should have caused Ebay to take any action. In fact, there have been countless OTHER sellers against whom action appeared to be warranted, but where none was taken.

[michael]

if you play on sleezebay you know that you got a great chance of getting burned with no recourse

 

if you so choose to play there then you are forwarned

 

let the buyer beware

[cpm9ball]

Chris, I'm not unsympathetic to your situation with Ebay and I feel they often fail to afford the protection they should to the good guys. But in this particular case, I see nothing in the feedback of the seller that would or should have caused Ebay to take any action. In fact, there have been countless OTHER sellers against whom action appeared to be warranted, but where none was taken.

 

Exactly the point, Mark! There was nothing in this seller's feedback that should have given cause for a "red flag", but it appears obvious that eBay must have had something in the works beforehand. Otherwise, why would they have shut him down as soon as his current listings ended?

 

FYI

I finally received a response from the seller after I sent him another e-mail threatening to contact federal authorities (committing a fraudulent act through interstate commerce or use of the internet is a federal offense). In my correspondence, I told him that my bank had confirmed that my check had cleared 12 days prior. In his reply, he stated that he would check to see if it had cleared, and if it had, he would send the coins immediately. Me, I'm thinking, "What do you mean "IF"? You deposited my check 23 days ago! What were you going to do, wait until you received your bank statement next month?"

 

This entire incident could have been avoided if mark6078 had acknowledged receipt of my payment or responded to my first inquiry. Even if he had indicated that he had received it but was "running behind", I could have accepted that. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"

 

Now, I wonder how much longer I'll have to wait for him to check with his bank before he sends the coins? We shall see!

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

Chris, I'm not unsympathetic to your situation with Ebay and I feel they often fail to afford the protection they should to the good guys. But in this particular case, I see nothing in the feedback of the seller that would or should have caused Ebay to take any action. In fact, there have been countless OTHER sellers against whom action appeared to be warranted, but where none was taken.

 

Exactly the point, Mark! There was nothing in this seller's feedback that should have given cause for a "red flag", but it appears obvious that eBay must have had something in the works beforehand. Otherwise, why would they have shut him down as soon as his current listings ended?

 

FYI

I finally received a response from the seller after I sent him another e-mail threatening to contact federal authorities (committing a fraudulent act through interstate commerce or use of the internet is a federal offense). In my correspondence, I told him that my bank had confirmed that my check had cleared 12 days prior. In his reply, he stated that he would check to see if it had cleared, and if it had, he would send the coins immediately. Me, I'm thinking, "What do you mean "IF"? You deposited my check 23 days ago! What were you going to do, wait until you received your bank statement next month?"

 

This entire incident could have been avoided if mark6078 had acknowledged receipt of my payment or responded to my first inquiry. Even if he had indicated that he had received it but was "running behind", I could have accepted that. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"

 

Now, I wonder how much longer I'll have to wait for him to check with his bank before he sends the coins? We shall see!

 

Chris

Chris, part of my original point was, that at the time the most recent listings were initiated, like you, Ebay might not have had any information that there was a problem with the seller - there's just no way to tell. Hopefully the seller is not just stalling and that all will turn out well in the end.

[MikeKing]

I once had ebay stock. I sold all my shares. Bottom line is that it's an unsophisticated market which bears more risk than something like buying from known major auciton houses that still have their own risks and inconveniences.

 

I just bought a coin from someone on ebay with 100% positive feedback. He listed that he wouldn't give return privileges for third party graded coins. Normally, I wouldn't buy a coin like that, but he had something I couldn't find anywhere else. I won the coin. It had a scratch on it that wasn't evident in the photo. He gave me a flimsy excuse about not being able to take it back.

 

Now, let's say he said he'd take it back.

I paid $1,000.00 for the coin.

If I send the coin back.

How do I know I'm going to get my money back?

I don't.

Do I ever learn?

[DC Dawg]

I once had ebay stock. I sold all my shares. Bottom line is that it's an unsophisticated market which bears more risk than something like buying from known major auciton houses that still have their own risks and inconveniences.

Ebay is considered one of the best tech stocks in the post tech-bubble era. They have done very well in my portfolio. There is little downside in the mechanisms used to make money. Ebay has created a market place that continues to thrive that allows eBay to make money on every listing on the site. It's an excellent model. I do not have to like them in order to understand their fundamentals to invest in them. When it comes to investing my money, I take emotion out of the equation.

 

I just bought a coin from someone on ebay with 100% positive feedback. He listed that he wouldn't give return privileges for third party graded coins. Normally, I wouldn't buy a coin like that, but he had something I couldn't find anywhere else. I won the coin. It had a scratch on it that wasn't evident in the photo. He gave me a flimsy excuse about not being able to take it back.

Those who provide consumer education teach us that if we, as consumers, do not feel comfortable with the transaction, don't participate. When spending money, we have to try to remove as much emotion as we can in order to protect ourselves. If you are uncomfortable with the risk and the mitigations of that risk are not sufficient, don't do the transaction. I once passed up a 3-legged Buffalo for $50 less than greysheet because I did not feel comfortable with the transaction. I have not found another I liked since. But that's the thrill of the chase and it will make me appreciate the coin even more!

 

Now, let's say he said he'd take it back.

I paid $1,000.00 for the coin.

If I send the coin back.

How do I know I'm going to get my money back?

I don't.

Do I ever learn?

This is why I use a credit card and/or PayPal. The two times I had problems with sellers (I have been an eBay member since 1998), I was able to get the situation resolved by going through the PayPal grievance process. PayPal made the refund happen.

 

Consumer education has shown me that when in doubt, use credit cards or other representative payment services, like PayPal. They provide a mechanism for recovering money in case of fraud or other time when non-delivery of goods and services occur--like when an airlines goes out of business and you're stuck with a ticket. Consumer education has taught me to never trust an online seller, regardless of reputation (e.g., a well known brick and mortar establishment with an online presence), because I know electronic records are too easy to change, delete, get filed elsewhere, etc (I do information security for a living), so I use methods to mitigate my risk.

 

BTW: If you are worried about not having a credit card for PayPal, you can have then debit a bank accound directly. This is what I do for my online purchases.

 

On discussions of purchasing coins and other items, I have been known to include the Latin phrase "Caveat Emptor," buyer beware! I believe it is up to the consumer to educate himself to protect hisself against problems. Remember, trust has to be earned and should not be granted because the seller uses a particular web site. Or as Q. David Bowers has suggested, "Buy the book before buying the coin."

 

Scott

[EZ_E]

Scott

 

Scott, I sure am glad that you became a board member! You always have informative and intelligent posts.

 

Victor

 

[DC Dawg]

Scott

 

Scott, I sure am glad that you became a board member! You always have informative and intelligent posts.

 

Victor

 

Thank you, Victor. I appreciate that!

 

Scott

[Here]

eBay eBay eBay will make you crazy! I rarely go there and I use to be an eBay junkie. I've bought only 2 items so far this year. One thing I really did enjoy though was sniping when almost everyone was still on dial-up or snipe programs. I had everything timed. And I had an old wind up clock I would actually watch the second hand so I knew when to hit enter. I won quite a few on the last second.

 

 

 

Jerry