NTC Graded junk

[Hoot]

A friend of mine returned from living in the far north and contacted me regarding some large cents he had acquired. He did so with basically no knowledge of the series and with the assumption that a TPG is a TPG is a TPG. He had 15 NTC graded pieces, 1 ANACS, 1 NGC, and 1 PCGS. He had already decided to keep the NGC and PCGS graded pieces, and I agreed that they were reasonably nice. The ANACS graded piece was also reasonable, but he wants MS Mature Head cents and the ANACS coin was AU.

 

The NTC graded coins, I told him, were nearly all badly graded and I thought he might even have a couple of counterfeit pieces that were graded as genuine. So, I told him that I'd only leave holdered those that fit the market grade, which amounted to three pieces in middle circulated grades! The rest had problems and since I'm getting a submission ready for NCS encapsulation, I decided to go ahead and crack the problem coins, work on the color of the corroded and cleaned pieces, and confirm the counterfeits.

 

So, out the coins came and, sure enough, two were counterfeit, but only one of the two I suspected! Both of the counnterfeits were electrotypes, one an 1851 graded MS65BN artificial color by NTC, and the other an 1852 graded AU58 obv porous, rev corrosion. The coins are very well concealed electrotypes and each have a well-matched seam down the edge. The "MS65" coin was relatively easy to spot, and was simply the wrong color, even for a "cleaned" coin. The "AU58" piece was not obvious until I had removed the verdigris from the surface and examined the edges. The edge was obvious, but removing the corrosion revealed a badly colored copper piece.

 

This little event amazed me, and should scare anyone not buying copper from NGC/NCS, PCGS, ANACS, or (I will also include) ICG. Insofar as I'm concerned, only these services have the competence to detect counterfeit coppers, although I've heard of the rare extraordinary counterfeit passing through. Counterfeiting among the large cent series is rampant, and it takes a good deal of study and practice to spot. I've read that it's worse among colonials, but have less experience therewith.

 

Hoot

[James_OldeTowne]

This is a darned shame. NTC coin can be a happy hunting ground for experienced collector, since they are so darned erratic that good coins do end up in their holders at tempting grades . But for a novice, it's a minefield fraught with danger.

 

I am sorry (and mad) that your friend got stuck on the bad end of this deal.

[WinstonWare]

I’m kind of interested in the first sentence. Where was your friend living? Just living off the land with a few supplies? That’s like my dream in life…

 

Thanks, Winston

[cpm9ball]

NTC coin can be a happy hunting ground for experienced collector, since they are so darned erratic that good coins do end up in their holders at tempting grades.

 

I've had a few occasions to pick up some nice Morgans that have been undergraded and/or misattributed by NTC.

 

I am sorry (and mad) that your friend got stuck on the bad end of this deal.

 

Mark, you didn't say from whom your friend acquired them......dealer?.....internet?....."estate" auction?

 

Chris

[TomB]

This is why knowledge is so important. I was once offered one of the Bay Area counterfeit 1853 large cents at a show and the piece was fantastic. The only way I knew it was fake was that I had a counterfeit detection book with me and the piece matched the diagnostics.

[Hoot]

Chris - All the coins were purchased from eBay sellers.

 

Tom - The Bay Area counterfeit coins are truly incredible. They are very sharp with square edges and known for a select few dates. Much more difficult to detect than electrotypes. Those sell for a nice premium.

 

Hoot

[Hoot]

BTW - The Bay Area counterfeits are known to be of the years 1802, 1805, 1851/81, and 1852. I don't recall the varieties, but they are dead-on. There is also an 1806 half cent (C1). There may be more, and one never knows when they'll show up with another date/variety. Many of these have ended up in slabs as they are exceptionally deceptive.

 

Hoot

[TomB]

I would assume that the one brought to me was an 1852, even though I wrote 1853, since you are familiar with the dates made.

[Hoot]

I would assume that the one brought to me was an 1852, even though I wrote 1853, since you are familiar with the dates made.

 

I didn't even notice the date difference! Yes, it was likely an 1852. I recently saw an 1854, however, that made me think "Bay Area" all over again. Like I said, the person who puts these out is quite good and there may be new pieces that surface at any time.

 

BTW, the last 1852 BAC that I know of, sold for $450.

 

Hoot