Can you tell what is wrong with the NGC label for this gold SS Republic coin?

[AC-migration]

When the SS Republic $20 Liberty Type 1 Double Eagles were first released, one that immediately caught my eye was a new variety that would obviously be a rare one. It was an 1854 Large Date Double Date from the shipwreck. There were two found in the wreck, so I bought the highest graded one in AU55, the other being XF45. (Note: the online NGC pop report shows 3 in AU55. A printed version from NGC at the time of the release shows a pop of only 1. But after you read this, neither count really matters.)

 

When I received the coin, there was a problem with the coin. If you collect double eagles, hopefully you can spot the problem. If not and you bought this coin, you could be out $8,500 when you went to sell. Can you spot the problem? As you can see from the inset image, there is no doubt to the doubling of the date, so that is not a problem.

 

 

Not sure?

 

Here's another picture that shows the three 1854 Philadelphia's in my collection. Each coin is shown at the same scale so you can more easily compare them to one another. The top coin is labeled a Small Date on the holder. The middle coin is the Large Date Double Date in question. The bottom coin is a Large Date but it is not designated as such on the holder (another reason to not rely too much on exact counts in the population reports).

 

 

Still not sure?

 

The answer: There is no such thing as a Large Date Double Date (or at least none have yet been discovered if there is). This coin is actually mislabeled. It is a Small Date Double Date. The difference in prices? When it was a newly discovered Large Date Double Date, it was a $10,000 coin. As a Small Date Double Date, it is worth closer to $1,500. So you need to really learn about what you collect and don't blindly believe what's on the holder. Even professionals can make mistakes.

 

Hopefully, if you are the owner of the XF45 coin, you are reading this. The coin above? I returned it to the dealer for a refund. Hopefully it is now on its way back to NGC to be labeled correctly. But if someone sells you a Large Date Double Date, be sure to check that date closely.

 

 

 

Although I have a #1 Ranked Registry Set, I still consider myself a relative newbie with regards to numismatics. But I am a firm believer in reading the book before buying the coin. I do my homework, and although I'm relatively new to the hobby, I consider myself a pretty good expert when it comes to $20 Type 1 Double Eagles.

 

But I am interested in numismatics in general, not just double eagles. So I've started a blog where I can document what I learn along the way. It's basically going to be my journal of what I learn. I plan to cover any and all topics in numismatics, not just double eagles or gold. I want to learn it all. I am more than willing to share what I learn, so please check it out if you are interested.

 

There's only a few posts out there currently, but I plan to add new ones regularly. My blog has an RSS feed if you are interested and comments on any of my posts are always welcome. Afterall, my goal is to learn as much as I can. Maybe I can help some others learn along the way too.

 

RSS Feed: My Blog

[EZ_E]

Thank you, AC, for your time in making this post. Although I don't personally collect double eagles, this is the type of informative post that collectors need.

[Bruceswar]

Thanks for a great post. I love post like these. Thanks!

[MAULEMALL]

Thats probably one of the best first post I have seen.

Welcome to the boards.

[DC Dawg]

I don't know if it is an image artifact or on the coin, but if you look at the concave top and just to the left of the top left of the vertical line, there is something there. The image looks as if it follows the outline of the number.

 

On the four, it is more pronounced. If you look at the upper left of the number, it looks like a the four was doubled. If so, then maybe the double-date is a valid grade.

 

Either this is an image artifact, shadow caused by lighting, or on the coin itself.

 

General question: Does NGC use high-powered microscope to verify these issues?

 

Scott

[relicsncoins]

Hi AC, welcom aboard. I notice that double eagle looks very lifeless and really chattery. Is that a result of being in salt water? Would it have slabbed if it were not from a famous shipwreck?

 

Thanks,

 

JJ

[HaydenTubbs]

[AC-migration]

Thanks for the nice replies everyone.

 

To answer JJ's questions:

 

"I notice that double eagle looks very lifeless and really chattery. Is that a result of being in salt water? Would it have slabbed if it were not from a famous shipwreck?"

 

Regarding the chatter, there's one thing I should have mentioned, the top coin in the picture is an MS62, the coin in question is AU55. The chatter is consistent with other AU55 double eagles I've owned and currently own (my 1856-O and 1861-S Paquet are two non-shipwreck AU55 examples in my collection).

 

As for the question about whether or not these would have been graded if they were not from a famous shipwreck, this is a question that has been asked not only of the SS Republic gold coins, but also of the SS Brother Jonathan and SS Central America coins.

 

My reply is "No, there is really no noticable saltwater effect on the gold coins that were graded from these shipwrecks (not true of the silver which show extensive saltwater effect). Deep water shipwrecks actually preserved the gold coins whereas shallower wrecks could have a myriad of tiny cracks on the surfaces of the gold (example: SS Yankee Blade double eagles). Apparently, the shallower wrecks were in a more turbulent environment which causes these cracks."

 

So really, the shipwreck gold coins are actually in better condition than non-shipwreck coins, especially Mint State coins. If you had unlimited resources and wanted to create a collection of Type 1 Double Eagles that were all the finest known or even condition census for each date and mint, you would have no choice but to include coins from these shipwrecks. Some of these coins have been beautifully preserved as though they just came from the mint today. Just take a look at some of the SS Central America coins graded by PCGS. 1857-S coins grade as high as MS67! As for the SS Republic, an 1865 Philadelphia graded a MS66* (star designation)! My collection has an MS65 from each of the three shipwrecks. One is graded MS65PL. Believe me when I say these coins do not show saltwater effects. These coins are beautiful!

 

Since I have a rather extensive shipwreck collection from all three shipwrecks (link to my Signature Set: The Arlington Collection of Shipwreck Gold ) , including silver coins from both the SSR and SSCA wrecks that are not listed in the Signature set, I feel I can give a pretty good answer to these questions. Currently my Type 1 collection of over 40 coins is split right down the middle between shipwreck and non-shipwreck coins. The coins in the collection grade from AU50 up through MS65PL, so I have a pretty good range to judge from.

 

Sorry for the long winded reply. This is really a topic that deserves its own thread. I'll create a new post where I can go into a little better detail as to why for some shipwrecks the gold coins were preserved and graded while silver coins were not (i.e. SS Republic, SS Central America), and why gold from other shipwrecks did not grade at all due to saltwater effects (e.g. SS Yankee Blade). Since these coins are not cheap, you definitely want to know about this stuff before you go out and buy any shipwreck coins. Knowing this stuff actually caused me to pass on a coin "apparently" from the SS Yankee Blade and pedigreed to Q. David Bowers. I'll even include my correspondence with Mr. Bowers about that coin. I will definitely create that post during the Labor Day weekend (I promise to try to keep it a little shorter than this reply).

 

Thanks again for the positive replies to my first post.

[HaydenTubbs]

Jack,I certainly enjoyed looking through your collection of Ty.1 double eagles. I can understand why you are proud of such a gorgeous set.

By the way,I hope your adoption went well.

[MAULEMALL]

Well you just blew my misconceptions about shipwrecked coins out of the water.

I am looking forward to more.

[AlixTCat]

I love a post that informs as well as challenging us to discern what is wrong with a coin or slab. Keep posting, you'll fit in here well.

 

Jonathan