Are these ALL of the SBA types / varieties?

[pendragon1998]

My current project is to assemble a complete collection of all Susan B. Anthony dollars. "Complete" to me means all dates, mint marks, and releases (i.e. Business circulation, proof, Special Mint Sets, etc). I don't care about first day covers or anything like that - only coin varieties. When I'm through, I'm tentatively planning to pop the entire collection into Air-Tite ring holders and put them into an Air-tite album. I am currently thinking I want to buy everything raw as I come across it, as the whole slabbed thing takes some of the fun out of it for me. I realize that might not be practical for the few really high dollar coins in this set, though, so it's not a hard and fast rule. I'm not really looking to do this as any kind of investment - it's just a hobby for me.

 

Can someone let me know if I've missed something?

There weren't two types of S marks on the 1979-S Business Circulation coins, were there?

 

(sorry about formatting issues; copied from excel)

 

1979 P Narrow Rim (Far Date) Business Circulation

1979 P Wide Rim (Near Date) Business Circulation

1979 D Business Circulation

1979 S Business Circulation

1979 S Type 1 (Filled S) Proof

1979 S Type 2 (Clear S) Proof

 

1980 P Business Circulation

1980 D Business Circulation

1980 S Business Circulation

1980 S Proof

 

1981 P Mint Set

1981 D Mint Set

1981 S Mint Set

1981 S Type 1 (First S) Proof

1981 S Type 2 (Clear S) Proof

 

1999 P Business Circulation

1999 D Business Circulation

1999 P Special Mint Set (Double Struck --> Proof-like Polish)

1999 D Special Mint Set (Double Struck --> Proof-like Polish)

1999 P Proof

[errorist]

No you missed the 1999 proof (Narrow Rim) variety such as the one I found a few years ago!!

[physics-fan3.14]

I had not heard about any SMS SBA's of 1999. Unless you are referring to the ones that could be bought directly from the mint in special packaging, but I don't think they had any special finish.

[pendragon1998]

From Full Talon Susan B. Anthony Dollars at SmallDollars.com :

 

The 1999 SBA's were released both as regular circulation strikes and in Special Mint Sets (SMS) that contain a 1999-P and a 1999-D SBA. These SMS SBA's were double struck from dies that had a proof-like polish so most have a chrome-like finish that is unique in the series.

 

Many SMS SBA's have full and rounded anatomic talons with visible skin folds, just as all SBA proofs do. Regular issue 1999 SBA's do not exhibit this greater incidence of increased talon definition.

 

As one would expect, most high-grade holdered 1999-D and 1999-P SBA's come from SMS sets. Even SMS SBA's, however, can have poor talon definition.

 

Unlike some earlier SMS coins in other denominations, the SBA SMS dollars have the same composition and weight as regular 1999 SBA's so there is, as of now, no sure test to distinguish SMS from regular.

 

errorist: do you have a photo of the narrow date 1999 proof? I hadn't heard of that one!

[Jazzy]

SBA's are great for collecting raw. Lots of high grade pieces out there.

 

I did the same with Ike's - complete date set collected raw - the old fashioned way.

[TomB]

That sounds like a pretty cool set, and even though I know nothing of SBAs, I would hope to learn about them from you.

[errorist]

I think I had a picture of it here a few years ago. I'll try to find it.

[pendragon1998]

Actually, I think I may be able to save you the trouble! I just took a better look at the proof 1999-P SBA I just got in recently, paying a little more attention to the rim width this time. Tell me what you guys think - because I'm thinking I've got me a sweet little Narrow Rim 1999-P here.

 

Sorry in advance for the quick and dirty photo. I just snapped one of my coin (on left) and compared it with the image of one (on right, wide-rim?) taken from from The SBA$ at smalldollars.com. Lots more space under the 1 on mine, no?

 

[errorist]

Could be! although you can't see the whole coin. On mine the 11 sided hex pattern in the corners actually disappear into the rim of the coin in two places.Is this a new proof variety I discovered? Who knows perhaps an expert can chime in here?

[pendragon1998]

I'm not seeing any corners completely disappearing into the rim of the coin, but the corners do seem to be much thinner than the other pictured coin above.

 

Here's a full shot of my coin - same lousy quick-and-dirty photo.

 

[errorist]

I do see what you are talking about and I do think there is a difference.That difference is what made me buy the coin that I did a few years ago.

[astrostu]

I think you need to compare it with a 1979-81 proof. My 1999 P rim looks very much like yours, though it's a tiny bit off-center towards the 12 o'clock position, and I thought it looks pretty thin. But I just compared it with a 1981 S proof and the rim looks nearly identical.

 

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I think comparing a photo of your proof to a picture of a regular-strike coin is not the best of ways to determine you have a rare type.

[physics-fan3.14]

Thanks, astrostu, I was just goin gto point out that the picture they are comparing to seems to be a business strike. It is entirely conceivable, and probably, that the proof and business strike coins are different in minute details. What you need is to compare to a picture of a proof. Good luck.

[errorist]

I have many of the 1999 P proofs and I can tell you with out question there is a difference between them.

[physics-fan3.14]

Cool. Can you post pictures of both types side by side?

[pendragon1998]

Until better photos turn up, here are two photos of two different coins --- left is from the Heritage archive and the right is from a current auction on eBay. I believe the left one shows the narrow rim variety and the right one shows a wide rim coin. I wish I could find a large, clear photo of a wide-rim coin. Perhaps Errorist will turn a few up. Actually, most of the photos I found online and all of the ones I saw at Heritage (only reviewed 6 or 7 there) ) were of the "narrow rim" variety.

[errorist]

I may be able to do it tomorrow. But I have to go to the bank to em!

[errorist]

get em

[McKinley-migration]

i love sba's... nice thread

[Beijim]

Fascinating.

 

Here are a 1981-S Type 1 and 1999-P side by side. Both are NGC PF70 ULTRA CAMEO. There's clearly a difference:

 

 

 

Note the difference in placement of the "1" digits even within the 1981 example! The 1981-S Type 2 and Type 1 appear to be identical as far as rim width and date placement are concerned, so I just picked one.

 

Beijim

[Bruceswar]

did someone say SBA's?

 

[1BigMo-migration]

Hey Bruce,yeah jump in here and tell us where the bear is in

the woods.

 

...Tony...

[astrostu]

Thought I'd chime in with a pic of my 1999 P proof SBA. It looks like there definately is some variety, since (though a worse picture since I don't have good lighting) it looks like the "1" in the date on mine is much cloesr to the rim than in the pic that Beijim posted above.

 

If you have any tips, I could try to take a better pic, pendragon1998. [see pic in attachment.]

[pendragon1998]

Astrostu's photo (bottom) and the Heritage pic (top) from earlier in the thread:

 

 

Astrostu, I'm getting a popup asking me for my Univ. of Colorado webfiles ID and password. Perhaps that's because you posted the photo in your last post? If you'd like, since I've got a copy of it in this post, you could edit your own post to delete it. Should fix the popup problem.

 

I'd like to see a large size/high qual photo of both varieties side-by-side. Come on, someone out there's got to have a good scan of the wide-rim variety.

[errorist]

It could be that the numbers are larger also.

[astrostu]

Astrostu's photo (right) and the Heritage pic (left) from earlier in the thread:

 

 

Astrostu, I'm getting a popup asking me for my Univ. of Colorado webfiles ID and password. Perhaps that's because you posted the photo in your last post? If you'd like, since I've got a copy of it in this post, you could edit your own post to delete it. Should fix the popup problem.

 

I'd like to see a large size/high qual photo of both varieties side-by-side. Come on, someone out there's got to have a good scan of the wide-rim variety.

 

Grr. If I could get the attachment thing to work, then I wouldn't've posted it on my CU thing. I hadn't thought to scan the coin, so here's my attempt -- click on the "Attachment" link at the top of this post to see it. Much clearer, I think, though the rim on the bottom appears a tad doubled. Dunno how to fix it, but it's the best I can do with my scanner (though I could go higher res if you wanted).

[pendragon1998]

Errorist:

I thought about that. If someone would put both types on a scanner and scan them, then we'd have a common size to compare in photoshop. We could then determine relative rim width, distance to rim, size of letters, etc.

 

Astrostu:

Your second image is great. What I find interesting is how the second image looks much more like a narrow rim, while the first image looked more like a wide rim. I wonder how much internal reflection inside the mint capsule can affect how we gauge distance between the numbers and the edge. Only way to tell for certain, I suppose is to scan both varieties of coins directly on the scanner bed sans capsules.

 

EDIT:

The word I was looking for was "affect" not "effect" - I should really know better.

[errorist]

small numbers large numbers??? New variety?

[astrostu]

Astrostu:

Your second image is great. What I find interesting is how the second image looks much more like a narrow rim, while the first image looked more like a wide rim. I wonder how much internal reflection inside the mint capsule can effect how we gauge distance between the numbers and the edge. Only way to tell for certain, I suppose is to scan both varieties of coins directly on the scanner bed sans capsules.

 

I agree completely. What I just did on my computer was to take my scan and overlay it over the left image that you used. I increased the size by 125% and rotated by about -2.1 degrees to get them lined up "perfectly" by using the stars as a guide.

 

And they look identical (other than the black field on mine). To as near as I can tell on Photoshop using their guides to the nearest pixel, the distance between the bottom of the "1" and the rim is identical (well, 1 pixel different, but that's way within measurement error).

 

So while I thought that mine looked like the "wide rim variety," it is the same as that "narrow rim variety." So if they exist, then I agree that a same scan side-by-side would be the only way to confirm it since with what's here, they're identical (or both a narrow rim, or both a wide rim).

[pendragon1998]

Back to this original image:

 

I just heard back from the site owner at at smalldollars.com -

 

Mike said:

Looks to me like your list is complete. As far as the 1999 Narrow/Wide rim is concerned, I do remember it being discussed in the past, but if I remember correctly, it was being compared to another date, not other 1999 proofs. In other words, all 1999 proofs are narrow rims. I could be wrong about this. If you find out otherwise I'd sure like to know about it. The photo you compared it to on Collector's Universe from my website may be a bit misleading. That photo came from the mint. It's not of an actual coin, probably a galvano, an early mockup, or some such thing,,,,,,,, but not an actual coin. I had never noticed it before (the rim), so I probably should change it. I liked it because it is such a nice clear picture.

 

As I mentioned before, it's really going to come down to someone scanning both varieties of coins, in their raw state, side by side on a scanner so we can determine once and for all what (if any) difference exists between them.