Surely my coin isn't this gross!!!!

[errorist]

http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-P-Monticello-Ni...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Couldn't he at least said sleepers??

[cpm9ball]

It isn't the coin that should be questioned in this case. It is the mentality of the seller. However, we may make an exception if we learn that he is accustomed to sleeping on his head.

 

Chris

[TJ'S Coins]

Did you notice the debris in the right field of the obverse? Another example of the disappointing business strike for this new design.

[Allan Ong]

How common are errors like these? I mean, these aren't proofs (i.e. the dies aren't really that meticulously checked such that a perfect coin comes out all the time). It seems like you can dress up any imperfection and sell it on ebay as an error coin...

 

Don't get me wrong... I sell coins on ebay as a hobby but this is a little overboard imho.

[errorist]

Don't know but if I were in charge of the mint no such coins would ever make it out.

[Die Varieties]

Don't know but if I were in charge of the mint no such coins would ever make it out.

 

Give me a friggin break! You don't even know what the heck your talking about when you make a statement like that.

 

So what are you telling me and this forum -- you going to inspect every coin being produced by the Mint? You going to keep running up and down the rows and rows of quad presses that are striking hundreds of nickels per second! Since you are going to stop all coins escaping from the Mint then you are going to have to check all the other denominations too? Let's see -- the Mint produces billions and billions of coins. Heck -- it's physically impossible to check to make sure, " ... no such coins would ever make it out." as you so claim if you were there. In fact, it would take multiple life times! While your at it -- are you going to check the branch Mints too so as none escape from them either? How would you do that?

[cpm9ball]

Don't know but if I were in charge of the mint no such coins would ever make it out.

 

Give me a friggin break! You don't even know what the heck your talking about when you make a statement like that.

 

So what are you telling me and this forum -- you going to inspect every coin being produced by the Mint? You going to keep running up and down the rows and rows of quad presses that are striking hundreds of nickels per second! Since you are going to stop all coins escaping from the Mint then you are going to have to check all the other denominations too? Let's see -- the Mint produces billions and billions of coins. Heck -- it's physically impossible to check to make sure, " ... no such coins would ever make it out." as you so claim if you were there. In fact, it would take multiple life times! While your at it -- are you going to check the branch Mints too so as none escape from them either? How would you do that?

 

Billy, I'm sending you a PM.

 

Chris

[errorist]

It would be simple. All you have to do is scan the die and compare that image against the coins that have been struck. With todays computer technology if there are any differences in the coins that have been struck then they would be rejected. The computer could scan thousands of coins per second.

[MunkyMan95]

I'm pretty sure that they have a system like that in place. It would reject coins that are not the right weight or size, but it wouldn't detect grease spots..... Maybe that was some other show on the Discovery channel, but I don't know.

[cpm9ball]

Hey, Billy!

[errorist]

I'm pretty sure that they have a system like that in place. It would reject coins that are not the right weight or size, but it wouldn't detect grease spots..... Maybe that was some other show on the Discovery channel, but I don't know.

 

I haven't heard of it but that technology exists now.

[Die Varieties]

It would be simple. All you have to do is scan the die and compare that image against the coins that have been struck. With todays computer technology if there are any differences in the coins that have been struck then they would be rejected. The computer could scan thousands of coins per second.

 

Impossible. You can't scan the die as the die is continually striking coins during its production run. As a quad press is pumping all these coins into one bin, there is no way to separate the good from the bad. Do you remember the '55 1c DDO? It was spotted by the Mint but was already mixed in with normal coins. They weren't about to destroy the whole batch. If they had decided to destroy the lot -- they knew they would be out of a job the next morning! Bingo -- that's why we have the 55 DDO. That right there tells you it is quantity -- not quality!

 

The Mint is a government business. It is only concerned with production and quotas being met on time as mandated by congress. The Mint employees are union. When it's time for lunch -- you can bet your booty it's time for lunch. The Mint doesn't care about the quality of business strike coins. Business strike coins are for commerce. The Mint is only concerned with quantity (the production quota being met). That's why the business strike coins we see in rolls and bags from the Mint look like [embarrassing lack of self control]. Because they aint got the time to inspect and why even should they -- these coins are for commerce.

 

Working dies during a production run will have its share of die gouges, die dents, die chips, die cracks and so forth. This is normal and acceptable tolerance for the Mint. It has been this way since the first coins were produced. From ancient times as well as it is today. It will continue to be that way. You, I or nobody else is going to change that.

 

And with all of that said -- the error rate for the Mint is .0001 percent of all the billions and billions of coins produced. Any business would be green with envy of the quality control of the Mint.

[errorist]

It would be simple. All you have to do is scan the die and compare that image against the coins that have been struck. With todays computer technology if there are any differences in the coins that have been struck then they would be rejected. The computer could scan thousands of coins per second.

 

Impossible. You can't scan the die as the die is continually striking coins during its production run. As a quad press is pumping all these coins into one bin, there is no way to separate the good from the bad. Do you remember the '55 1c DDO? It was spotted by the Mint but was already mixed in with normal coins. They weren't about to destroy the whole batch. If they had decided to destroy the lot -- they knew they would be out of a job the next morning! Bingo -- that's why we have the 55 DDO. That right there tells you it is quantity -- not quality!

 

The Mint is a government business. It is only concerned with production and quotas being met on time as mandated by congress. The Mint employees are union. When it's time for lunch -- you can bet your booty it's time for lunch. The Mint doesn't care about the quality of business strike coins. Business strike coins are for commerce. The Mint is only concerned with quantity (the production quota being met). That's why the business strike coins we see in rolls and bags from the Mint look like [embarrassing lack of self control]. Because they aint got the time to inspect and why even should they -- these coins are for commerce.

 

Working dies during a production run will have its share of die gouges, die dents, die chips, die cracks and so forth. This is normal and acceptable tolerance for the Mint. It has been this way since the first coins were produced. From ancient times as well as it is today. It will continue to be that way. You, I or nobody else is going to change that.

 

And with all of that said -- the error rate for the Mint is .0001 percent of all the billions and billions of coins produced. Any business would be green with envy of the quality control of the Mint.

 

You use the die as reference as to what the coins being struck are supposed to look like. Once the coins that have been struck are scanned and found to be defective at that point they are rejected.Todays computers could do the job easy.

Once the first rejected coin is discovered you can then check the die for any flaws.

[Die Varieties]

"You use the die as reference as to what the coins being struck are supposed to look like. Once the coins that have been struck are scanned and found to be defective at that point they are rejected.Todays computers could do the job easy.

Once the first rejected coin is discovered you can then check the die for any flaws."

 

All working dies are going to have die gouges, die cracks, die scratches, etc., during its full production run of striking coinage. A coin at it's late to very late stages during a full production run will not even come close to looking like a die that is used as a perfect reference standard for a particular design at the beginning of a production run. Why would the Mint ever want to reject/destroy coins that have been produced when they consider those same business strike coins within normal tolerance standards.

 

If that was the case, and it's not, then the Mint would be rejecting/destroying all the coins they ever damn produced!!! There would be a whole lot of heads rolling to include the front office.

 

Again -- you don't make a bit of sense. Why -- because you don't know what the heck your talking about.

[zrlevin]

It would be simple. All you have to do is scan the die and compare that image against the coins that have been struck. With todays computer technology if there are any differences in the coins that have been struck then they would be rejected. The computer could scan thousands of coins per second.

 

[errorist]

"You use the die as reference as to what the coins being struck are supposed to look like. Once the coins that have been struck are scanned and found to be defective at that point they are rejected.Todays computers could do the job easy.

Once the first rejected coin is discovered you can then check the die for any flaws."

 

All working dies are going to have die gouges, die cracks, die scratches, etc., during its full production run of striking coinage. A coin at it's late to very late stages during a full production run will not even come close to looking like a die that is used as a perfect reference standard for a particular design at the beginning of a production run. Why would the Mint ever want to reject/destroy coins that have been produced when they consider those same business strike coins within normal tolerance standards.

 

If that was the case, and it's not, then the Mint would be rejecting/destroying all the coins they ever damn produced!!! There would be a whole lot of heads rolling to include the front office.

 

Again -- you don't make a bit of sense. Why -- because you don't know what the heck your talking about.

 

All they have to do is raise the standards it is that simple.Once a problem is found just check the die. If you think about it such errors as you mentioned would become more rare and perhaps more valuable.

[Die Varieties]

"If you think about it such errors as you mentioned would become more rare and perhaps more valuable."

 

But that is where you got it all wrong. They are not rare and they are not valuable. These die cracks, die gouges, die scratches, etc., are not an error and it is not a variety. It happens because of the working dies taking a beating striking so many hundreds of thousands of coins during its full production run.

 

You go out and buy a brand new set of tires. Ahh yes -- nice deep thread on them babies. You be driving smooth on your vacation. But what do those tire looks like after say 50000 miles. Does the thread on them 50000 mile tires look like when it was on them when you first bought the new tires? Nope! But they are the SAME TIRES arent they? Well -- by your silly reasoning -- you would reject your tires after 5000 miles and go get a new set!!??!! I don't think so errorist!

[errorist]

"If you think about it such errors as you mentioned would become more rare and perhaps more valuable."

 

But that is where you got it all wrong. They are not rare and they are not valuable. These die cracks, die gouges, die scratches, etc., are not an error and it is not a variety. It happens because of the working dies taking a beating striking so many hundreds of thousands of coins during its full production run.

 

You go out and buy a brand new set of tires. Ahh yes -- nice deep thread on them babies. You be driving smooth on your vacation. But what do those tire looks like after say 50000 miles. Does the thread on them 50000 mile tires look like when it was on them when you first bought the new tires? Nope! But they are the SAME TIRES arent they? Well -- by your silly reasoning -- you would reject your tires after 5000 miles and go get a new set!!??!! I don't think so errorist!

 

Ah! But they would become rare and valuable if you could eliminate such flaws in this manner. Who would want such flaws on coins anyways? If we don't want them then we should do our best to eliminate them.Who says they are not errors or varieties, anyways?

[Die Varieties]

Anyway -- it's past my bed time and I got to get ready to head to Atlanta for the ANA National Money Show.

 

If any of you are going to the show hope we can hook up. Just look for the skinny bald guy! Errorist -- you too, I think you could use a few cold ones. First one on me!

 

Peace out!

[errorist]

Don't go just yet. I still have a few ?s for ya!!

[errorist]

First one what? Six pack or case???

[Die Varieties]

You going to be there? Meeting is 2PM Friday at the bar just outside the bourse. That's were everybody is going to be getting the Kool-Aid.

[errorist]

Sure do you have directions on how to get there from I-20 Oxford Alabama? How big of show is this? Is this the big one for Atlanta this year?

[Die Varieties]

Sure do you have directions on how to get there from I-20 Oxford Alabama? How big of show is this? Is this the big one for Atlanta this year?

 

Dang -- I been thru Oxford many times! Heck, you aint that far away. I have to drive from Charleston, SC!!!

 

This is a big show. Take I-20 till you hit I-295. Should be just past Six Flags. Take I-295 north going to Marietta. On I-295 going north take exit 20 (the exit just before I-75). Exit 20 is Cobb Parkway. You will immediately see the Galleria Speciality Mall on your left which is where the ANA Show is. Free parking, free show admission. Lots of great exhibits and education seminars going on as well.

[Die Varieties]

Thanks Chris for the PH pic. I have another medal that I rarely show it. It has a star. Can you guess it?

[errorist]

I-285. Wow that is easy. Ok! What is the best time rome around and see all the coins and booths?This is the first big coin show I have ever been to.I'll feel lost for sure!

[Die Varieties]

I-285. Wow that is easy. Ok! What is the best time rome around and see all the coins and booths?This is the first big coin show I have ever been to.I'll feel lost for sure!

 

Since this is your first big show -- I would recommend startin early. Check in around 9 AM and have at it. With around 400 tables, exhibits, all the grading services (well, the ones that count anyway), Numismatic News, Coin World, grading seminars, etc, etc., plus the Kool-Aid session, you got a lot to do!!!!!

[errorist]

Well If I can get a beer per table I'd be doin about average by the end of the day. This is going to be fun for sure. Would you like to hold a PMM in your hand?

[Die Varieties]

"Would you like to hold a PMM in your hand?"

 

ROTFLOL!!! I just knew that was coming! Yeah -- bring it on!

[errorist]

"Would you like to hold a PMM in your hand?"

 

ROTFLOL!!! I just knew that was coming! Yeah -- bring it on!

 

OK I'll see what I can do. A nice raw one should suffice.