Collecting proof and mint sets. WHY???????????????????????

[msmhappy]

 

First, let me clarify something for everyone. The P.S. at the end of my posts that says "dont forget! collect proof sets!!" Is only a simple reminder to everyone that proof sets are made for collecting!!!!

 

A proof coin, is one that receives special care and treatment durring production. A proof coin also represents an attempt at perfection in the coining process. The goal of proofing a coin is to create a coin that is perfect in every visual and technical way. A full strike that shows every tiny detail to full advantage, with NO handling marks at all!!! Finished coins are put in special cases after striking, not in bags or rolls, then sealed and prepared for shippment.

 

A mint coin however, is a coin that is made for general circulation. After the striking process the coins are either put in bags or rolls to be later put and sealed in respective containers. No special care it taken for these coins.

 

I feel that in short of going on and on and on, that I have made my point about proof coins. but then again.....

 

Some people only collect proof sets for the coins themselves.

Some people collect them because they are in their original packageing.

Some collect them for absolut perfection in the coins and packageing!!

 

It depends on what you want!

it depends on what you like!

 

I personally like the perfection part. Beautiful, perfect coins housed in an allmost untouched container, as well as its packageing....

 

If you are one who does not like proof sets, then thats ok with me.

As long as you collect coins, no matter the grade, just collect them!!!!!

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TWODOGS-migration]

I like EVERYTHING!!!

 

[carterhaines-migration]

msmhappy, I hope that you did not get the wrong impression of me from my reply on another thread about how I do not like modern proof sets. While I do not really like how the mint has been with proof sets recently, I still collect them and like them as much as I do with any other coin or coin set. I personally prefer the post 1998 silver proof sets as it is interesting to see how their prices fluctuate so much. In, fact one of my biggest goals even is to accumulate two full collections of proof and mint sets from the late 40's to now (something that I definetely cant even try with my miniscule coin budget).

 

Also, since you are such a proof set fan, I was wondering if I made a good decision on my most recent transaction. I was planning on listing 4 2002 silver proof sets, 1 2000 silver proof set, and 1 1995 regular proof set on ebay. Brent-Krueger offered me $279.15 (minus the $14 shipping) for the sets. As it seemed decent, and I really did not want to have to deal with ebay, I accepted the offer. I feel fine with it as these are sets I got since last summer, and paid less than $200 for ($35 for the 95, $28 for the 00, $30 for a 02 silver, and $32.5 per for the other 3 02 silvers); but what is your opinion. Did I get a fair deal or could I have done better?

[msmhappy]

 

carter,

 

No, I did not get the wrong impression..

 

I personally purchase sets and loose coins for my collection, and not for resale.

 

However, yes! ya did good. Sounds like your happy with the sale you made.

You pretty much got top dollar for those sets!!!

 

Coins and their pricing is all about: Supply and demand!! Again, Yes ya did good!!

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!

[msmhappy]

 

James, nice platinum ounce!!

 

Those are sweet, but way out of my budget!

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TWODOGS-migration]

Me too, but I figure at one time or another, every coin out there needs to pass through my hands. Even if it only stays around for a short time.

[michael]

for me why not??

 

here is a proof coin but it is not perfect

 

the mint did not have the packaging back in this year as they do today combined with not as advanced storage options as today

 

but this coin actually has as deep mirrors and frost as many later date proof coins.

 

but proof coins are hard to show off in scans

 

sincerely michael

[michael]

herre is another proof coin with deep mirrors not shown on the scan but it is colored from storage in a paper envelope wrapped in tissue

 

sincerely michael

[msmhappy]

 

michael, your right about the scans. but thats a wonderful strike on that trade dollar. I bet it stunning in person!!!

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[michael]

here is another proof coin stored in an album also

not shown in the scan are the deep mirrors

 

sincerely michael

[michael]

here is yet another proof coin

 

also with deep mirrors and blinding frost not seen in the scan

shock white too with excellent flash and blast

just like it came off the dies yesterday

 

sincerely michael

[michael]

hi there you are right about the trade it is a 100% full strike with the trade and this is uncommon for the 1881 as even in a double strike proof

 

but this coin since it is deeply cameoed with liquid mirrors and one of the first coins off a new proof die it has a deep strike also

 

and if you look on the reverse the eagles wing the eagles right wing with you it is looking on the left side you can see not too clearly in the scan a shiny spot on the eagle this is grease sticking to the die fo when the coin was struck it made the shint spot as the grease prevented the metal from getting into the design of the die

 

if you look at the vermule 1881 which was wildly toned in the stacks auction i think? about a year or so ago this coin also have this great in the exact same spot on the eagles wing as this herein ultra deep cameo coin

 

but the toned vermule coin is not deeply cameoed but since i have not seen the coin in person just from a photo i cant say for sure but as i can tell the deep frosted surfaces really did not last long and i bet after a few impressions from the proof die there was not great contrast left between the devices and the fields on most struck coins of this year

 

sincerely michael

 

also you can see thw worms the lint marks from a polishing cloth by the pressman in which is polished this die right before this coin was struck the lint stuck to the die and then the impression was transfured on the coin with the mirrors magnifying such worms as i call them

 

this limits this coin to the choice grade with the reverse being not only gem but a superb gem

 

a really particiularry neat coin

 

the obverse is a nice choice proof very nice but the reverse is at least a 66/67 coin a liner 67 coin on the reverse with only a choice 64 obverse

 

sincerely michael

 

the eye appeal is 67/68!!

 

so overall a proof 64! the nicest 64 i have ever seen

 

totally blast shock white and super flashy

 

sincerely michael

[BillJones]

The only modern coins that really interest me are Proofs. They are the best impressions of the designs that are available from the sharpness standpoint. I also especially like the luster.

 

Proof sets provide me with a year by year collection. I like them only as complete sets in the original packaging. I've get the run that has been issued during my lifetime. All of them, except the 1950 set, are in the original packages.

 

I've got 5 1952 sets in the boxes and the original package in which they were mailed to the original purchaser. That's the most unusual group of Proof sets that I have.

[CarlWohlforth]

My wife collects proof sets in original packages. She has only three in capitol plastics holders, the rest are in original mint packaging. They go back to 1941.

 

Bill, you say you like the luster. I am under the impression luster is what causes the cartwheel effect on UNC Morgans. My daughter calls it the bow tie effect. If that is what luster is I don't see it on my modern proofs.

 

Please help me understand what you mean. I have heard other people describe proofs as having luster but I just didn't see what I was looking for.

[carterhaines-migration]

CarlWohlForth, luster is basically just what makes a coin shine. Also, is there any chance you could post a picture of the 1941 proof set? it sounds like a real nice find.

[CarlWohlforth]

I will dig out the '41 set from my wife's collection later and see if I can photograph it. I think that one is in a capital holder so it should be easy. I have a 1907 set too, that is the neatest one and is in my collection (not my wifes)!

 

But still I think people use the term luster to mean the specific cartwheel effect. You don't get that effect on DMPL Morgans. The fields are bright and shiney on those DMPLs. But they don't have the cartwheel effect.

 

1907 Dime

1907 Quarter

 

1907 Half

 

These coins are a set. I was told they have been together since 1907. The toning matches. I have the cent and nickel too. They are pretty low grade because of slide marks on the high points of the obverses. Be careful when using holders with slides!!!!

[GDJMSP]

Carl -

 

I too would like to see pics of the '41 proof Set. As an avid collector of both original Mint & Proof sets - I have never seen one. Proof coins from '36 through '42 were sold individually in cellophane sleeves. However - if a collector ordered all the proof coins for the year - the cellophane sleeves were stapled together and shipped in either a box or an envelope. Full proof sets in original packaging for these years are extremely rare. Your wife is indeed very lucky to own such a set - I envy her.

 

Please share the pics

[CarlWohlforth]

I just dug through my wife's collection. She has more stuff than I remembered! All that mint packaging takes up a lot of space. She has the silver proofs, the regular proofs, Premier Proof sets, Prestige sets and even some bullion and commems.

 

Anyway I remembered wrong. She has 6 sets in capital plastics holders. Only the '51 and '53 are in the cellophane squares, stapled and put in a small cardboard box. The '55 and later are in flat packs.

 

I can only find one '42 nickel!!!! The other one must be around here somehwere... Anyway I have the '41 and '42 sets here but didn't photo them as they are just average proofs in a capital holder. The '41 dime and '42 cent looks good... There is a small manila envelope with "1942 Proof Set" printed on it in red ink. She got that when she bought the set. I'm not sure where it came from.

[GDJMSP]

Awwwwww - was lookin forward to that

 

Thanks for tryin anyway Carl

[BillJones]

Hi Carl,

 

Luster is the result of the metal flow when the coin is struck. Both brilliant Proof and business strike coins have luster when they are in Mint State. Matte Proof coins do not have luster because of the nature of their finish.

[CarlWohlforth]

Hey GDJMSP, I thought you were only interested in sets in original packaging. Here is a shot of my wife's sets. I don't want to disappoint you. But I am disappointed I can't find that 1942 T1 nickel!

 

1941, 1942 Proof Sets

 

[carterhaines-migration]

It could just be me, or the quality of the scans, but the Half, Quarter, and Dime in the 1942 set look like Mint State coins, not Proofs. What do you think?

[msmhappy]

 

Its so hard to tell from the scans. ?????......?????

 

I'm not an expert, but, I'd say they were proof....

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!

[CarlWohlforth]

Well I guess many folks break up these sets, dip the coins and slab them. If you could see the strike, the clean surfaces, the squared off lettering and so forth you would be convinced.

 

I've seen several sets and these look typical. The '41 dime and '42 cent would probably grade pretty high...

[msmhappy]

carl,

 

Unfortunatly, you are correct!! People do break up a 50 year old sets, just for one coin. Because all they can think about is there pocket and the money in it. I can be a good thing I guess, but, well , NO. Leave em a lone!! Collect em as they are!! A beautiful complete set issued by the U.S. mint.

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!

[cladking]

The average mint and proof set from the last 50 years is worth more for it's parts than it is as a set. This situation is greatly exascerbated by the extra value created by high grade coins which are found in many of the sets. Until the supply and demand fundamentals change there will continue to be wholesale dismantling of these sets. In all probability the destruction of the sets will continue to increase until they are no longer coming on the market at a rate which exceeds the demand. While this day may well be at hand, the destruction is continuing unabated at this time.

[GDJMSP]

It was the original sets I wanted to see Carl - I was disappointed she did not have them.

 

But thanks for sharing the pics anyway

[msmhappy]

 

cladking, your right in part about single coins out of a complete set. There is a large market out there for singles.

 

However, as I had stated in the beginning, some collect the sets in their original state. Housed in mint packageing!! I beleive the market for singles outweighs the market for sets, (unfortunatly, may sets are becoming harder to find because of dimatling of them).

 

As the quantity of complete sets diminishes, their value will continue to increase!!

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!

[EZ_E]

Mike,

I agree, I love proof sets! I have them all from 1957 to date, including the silver sets. (Will work on the earlier ones later) I bought some Eagle albums (advertised in Numismatic News) in order to house them. They look awesome!

The way I see it, what good is a collection if they can not be easily viewed/displayed. That's why I think Eagle is perfect to house proof sets. I tossed the packaging away. Hopefully, I won't live to regret it. I do save original packaging on other mint products, however.

It amazes me that the 2002 silver proof set has already more than doubled in value. I can understand that 1999 caught some people off guard and left them w/o a set. Therefore, they are outrageously priced. Dealers overcompensated in 2000, thus prices are low. I don't know why the 2001 silver proof set is so high. Probably just high demand. Now, the 2002 silver set is steadily creeping up. Sure wish that I purchased more than just one extra set. Any explanations on the surging market?

[msmhappy]

 

victor,

 

Proof singles are in demand!!! collectors want then slabed with the ultimate grade of PR70. Which carries an ulitmate price for the seller!!

 

As far as the surging prices of silver sets?? Thats a tough one to answer! There are many factors involved:

 

Low mintage is one! The more sets that are broken up, the more valuable complete sets become.

 

Singles! Collectors want singles that are slabed!!

 

Newbees!! With more and more people every day being exposed to nusimatics, the more will be purchased. A large part of our population has no idea about what the mint produces. And most new collectors are facinated by slabed coins in the ultimate grade of 70!!!!!! And dealers know it!!!!!!!!!

 

And about your proof set collection? KEEP UM!!!! And if you can, try to collect the Prestige and premium sets as well!!!

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!