Ever got the feeling a dealer is too big for you?

[Bruceswar]

When I was younger, say 14 or 15(don't remember exactly how I was since it was close to my B-Day) I had the aprotunity so I thought to go and visit Heritage Coins. I had come across a coin and was directed there for further assistance on it.(A colonial). Anyhow I had taken a few more of my coins just for kicks, since I was young. We waited while getting buzzed in, which is understandable. They sent out a guy to look at the coin and he told me both of my colonial coins were fakes and issued by gas stations in the 60's.(One of which was later determined to be way older by another Colonial Expert, with back-up for it. 1860's) Then he ask if he could see the other coins I had brought in, some of which were odd error wheat cents, like Ghost Image of Lincoln or known as die clash, clogged numbers, etc I also had an 1849 1$ coin and an Oregon Trail 1926 ANACS MS 66... He made me a low offer on the 2 coins. Thats not what bothered me so much as to say my Lincolns were worth the 18 cents they were printed on(since there was 18 of them) and I should basically spend them. He passed threw my coins fast disgaurding most of them as basically worthless. This left a bad taste in my mouth with them. I got the vise in my mind that they had lost sight of the coin hobby and what it is all about all for the mighty dollar. As for being young I was a bit dejected that my coins some of which were high dollar to me few hundred or so were not even on the radar to them or should I say this one guy. He had that elitest attitude towards me thinking since I was young I did not know a thing about coins. I took my coins and left with a sour taste. I thought the hobby was about enjoying the coins and not the money involed with it? Also what happen to trying to harbor new blood into the hobby, young blood even, such as myself at the time. I am still young by hobby standards(22). I have been collecting coins since I was 7, but that incedent right there almost got me to dump all my coins and be done with it. Now from thier standpoint, I know it is a business but I think there are better ways about going it in that sense. Maybe I am looney? I enjoy the hobby and the hunt for great coins even if they don't cost an arm and leg. Maybe I am not normal for the hobby? I thought the hobby was supposed to be one of enjoyment and not so much the money side of it? For whats its worth, I will take the way I felt I was treated into account when doing business with them if any.

[James_OldeTowne]

Personally, I think the hobby has become much too commercialized for it's own good - which sadly is true about much of America. Think about Christmas, for example! There really was a time when the Holidays meant time spent with your family, getting together, cooking together, eating together, buying and wrapping presents together, yes even arguing together, but the point is, Christmas was a way of spending your TIME together.

 

Today, Christmas has come to mean endless TV commercials, hype, glitz, glitter, and racking up credit cards, because advertisers make you believe your "loved" ones must have "it", and they must have "it" now! At least as long as "it" means bigger profits!

 

Our great hobby is on the same path. The main objective of dealers is to make you feel like your collection is not good enough, and unless you spend more money - a lot more money - it will never be good enough. You collect Morgan dollars? Then they MUST be at least proof-like to be worth anything. And if most of your are prooflike, then they MUST be DEEP mirror proof-like to really be worth while.

 

And your coins can never be a high enough grade, not when grading services are constantly adding to the supply of MS-69 and 70 coins. You collect Lincoln cents? Well, after all, somebody needs to BUY these ultra high-grade coins - YOU!!!!! You need to make sure all of your Lincolns are at least "RD", and if they are "RD", that's still not good enough - you need to upgrade them to pop-top status for the registry!

 

You collect Large cents? I'm sorry, but your're not doing well enough either just collecting a date set. You need varieties, yes varieties! After all, that means you get to buy (and the dealer gets to sell) five times as many coins than if you just did the dates. And if you already have the varieties, then you're not really a "true collector" unless you get all the die states!!!!!

 

It never ends. Dealers feed on the constant need that is hyped up about having to upgrade this or that, especially your key date coins. It's like buying a car - your car is just not good enough unless it's less than two years old, and has all the options.

 

On second thought, you really need two cars - the sporty one to leave parked in the garage most of the time (gotta keep those miles down), and the big SUV to commute back and forth with - oh and buy coincidence, so you can spend more on gas.

 

Besides, if you buy enough coins like you're supposed to, you're going to NEED that big SUV to drive them around in..........

 

James

[cointagious]

Ever got the feeling a dealer is too big for you?

 

 

Heritage big or Coleman Foster big?

 

Our great hobby is on the same path. The main objective of dealers is to make you feel like your collection is not good enough, and unless you spend more money - a lot more money - it will never be good enough. You collect Morgan dollars? Then they MUST be at least proof-like to be worth anything. And if most of your are prooflike, then they MUST be DEEP mirror proof-like to really be worth while.

 

And your coins can never be a high enough grade, not when grading services are constantly adding to the supply of MS-69 and 70 coins. You collect Lincoln cents? Well, after all, somebody needs to BUY these ultra high-grade coins - YOU!!!!! You need to make sure all of your Lincolns are at least "RD", and if they are "RD", that's still not good enough - you need to upgrade them to pop-top status for the registry!

 

You collect Large cents? I'm sorry, but your're not doing well enough either just collecting a date set. You need varieties, yes varieties! After all, that means you get to buy (and the dealer gets to sell) five times as many coins than if you just did the dates. And if you already have the varieties, then you're not really a "true collector" unless you get all the die states!!!!!

 

 

 

One segment in the hobby has always been about chasing the premuim quality piece. Another, about quantity. The dealers have simply filled that need.

[gunmoney-migration]

As a newbe to this site, and since I don't collect US coins, being from Europe where our standards are different, and you don't see may TPG coins on the dealers table, you have to follow your heart in what you like and not to depend on PCGS, NGC etc to tell you what to collect. e.g. all SAC in MS68, Wheat pennies in MS66 etc. I say to all the young collectors (I'm in my 30's) Collect what you like

So what if that a 1723 halfpenny has a hold in it! do you like it, buy it and enjoy it for what it is worth to you, and not to be put off by a dealer telling you otherwise.

Goes against the grain in that you should buy qualitity and not quantity, but there kids, they have plenty of time to upgrade there collections if they wish in the future but for now let them enjoy it

It's a hobby not an investment. Sure every one want's to or would like to make a few Euro's or Dollars when they sell there collection. It's still a hobby and dealers should encourage young collectors and not put the off.

[TomB]

It's unfortunate that you had that experience with Heritage. However, I will take somewhat of a Devil's Advocate approach to this and state that you were likely at the wrong dealer for the type of coins you then owned. This is in no way a slam on you or your coins, then or now, it is simply an observation.

 

Like it or not, this hobby/industry can generate significant sums of money and you were at the site of a major dealer in retail and wholesale goods. Time truly is money for them and we don't know if you caught them at a bad time. Perhaps they were shorthanded that day, getting ready for a large auction or were dealing inside with known customers and their issues.

 

It is unfortunate that the representative did not try to cultivate a better relationship with you or experience for you, but there may have been other issues. At least you stuck with the passion for the hobby/industry and now that we have these forums there is free flowing information at just about any time of the day or night.

[Bruceswar]

The deal that bothered me the most was the man's comments about my coins. Even if they were not of thier liking or something they would have sold. A quote that will be eteched into my mind forever "18 Lincoln Cents, I think we are all victims of doing that when we were kids, but you do have a piece of history since these were put in shortly after the famous 1955 DD Cent."(They were wheats) I would just like to know what I was a victim of? Collecting? Wasting a mylar flip? Was it a waste? Not Destroying history? Having Lincolns in my lose coin Album? Maybe I am totally out of touch with the hobby? What happened to enjoyment? I guess I would have been a bit more happy if the guy had treated me a bit better even if I did not have the type of coins they sold. I guess I am just not into that "elitist" attitude. I totally understand about low balling my coins that they had made offers on. They are in business to make money and they did not get where they are without it. As for being short staffed, I would not think so, as while standing there I must have saw 15 different people walk by or so... and no telling who I did not see, but who I am to say how they were staffed that day. All in all I got that sour taste.

 

On Another note, why do alot of dealers(That I don't normally deal with)(Say when I am out of town or something) when I walk into thier shops or whatnot, assume that I know nothing about coins and will not give me the time of day? I know I am young for the hobby but that does not mean I don't know anything or have any collecting taste that requires money. I guess I just don't like how they stereo type me sometimes, since I am young. I also have the cure for that though, just ask for a key coin or 2 and they will take you a bit more serious for the most part.

[michael]

the guy at heritage was a pig

 

they make a big deal about young collectors and making rhe hobby better by their donations

 

and then you come to their offices and they treat you like this

 

well such is the coin game

 

but there are other well meaning collectors and dealers out there but you will have to wade through lots of sh*t like that human turd at heritage to find someone good

 

well dust off your feet and do not go back to heritage anymore i have no doubt you can do well and enjoy the hobby without them!!

 

life is a journey not a guided tour

 

it is too bad you did not meet me things would have been very different and you would have walked away with some great older numismatic items also! and books and information all for free!!

 

forget about it move on and onto new and better things

[Bruceswar]

I may forgive but never forget. I have found other great venues for buying coins, and I have found a few local dealers who I feel pretty good with when buying coins. I always like to look at my coins in hand before I buy, that way if there is any mistakes or mishaps I can place the blame on me and not some picture. If I make a mistake I want it to be all on me. I plan on doing my part for the hobby to keep it alive and well. I did not get into this hobby for finacial reasons and I am going to keep it that way. I collect for me and what I like not what will be worth X amount later on. The enjoyment I get out of it is worth more than any $ ammount that can be made off a coin.

[BankNote1]

I know how you feel. I went to the local show this summer. It was the first outing for me in a year. I just haven't been able to get around very well. It seemed that at almost every table I stopped at the dealers just didn't want to fool with me. Quite a few acted like It hurt them to have to go into their case to show me something. Instead of spending most of the day at the show I just turned my wheel chair towards the door and left. I didn't buy anything...

[RobertB]

I agree with many of the things TomB has already said. I'd like to add that in all things there are hierarchies. Heritage generally handles coins in the hundreds of dollars range and up to the tens of thousands, but don't get me wrong. I've bought many coins from Heritage for under $200 and under $100. Heritage has been great to me, once I won one of there surveys and they sent me $250, another time I screwed up and accidently bid out a $1500 coin that there was no way I could afford and they were very understanding and waived it for me. Heritage is perhaps not where you needed to be.

 

Believe me, I'm not insulting your coins here. I'm very, very, very far away from big time coins. It's just that the numismatic compatibilities between your coins and what Heritage would like to see were just not there.

[Oldtrader3]

Bruce: I have had the same thing happen to me with large dealers. They need to remember, especially with young numismaticists, a dealer can not forecast how large a collection a person will accumulate in their lifetime. Other large dealers (i.e. Dave Bowers) have always been gentleman in dealing with me, no matter my age or how large my current coin budget. Monty: there is no excuse for rudeness, but it certainly seems to be pervasive nowadays. I just have a long memory and am disinclined to deal with people who disrespect me or my coins.

 

Many dealers go to shows only for the wholesale trade and have no interest in retail. This seems shortsighted to me. As long as they are sitting there cooling their heels. They may as well deal both sides.

[Bruceswar]

I agree with many of the things TomB has already said. I'd like to add that in all things there are hierarchies. Heritage generally handles coins in the hundreds of dollars range and up to the tens of thousands, but don't get me wrong. I've bought many coins from Heritage for under $200 and under $100. Heritage has been great to me, once I won one of there surveys and they sent me $250, another time I screwed up and accidently bid out a $1500 coin that there was no way I could afford and they were very understanding and waived it for me. Heritage is perhaps not where you needed to be.

 

Believe me, I'm not insulting your coins here. I'm very, very, very far away from big time coins. It's just that the numismatic compatibilities between your coins and what Heritage would like to see were just not there.

 

I am not saying my coins were on par for what they would sale since I know they like to deal in higher end coins. But say you walked in with your MS 62 Cleveland and they basically told you they would give you 25% of book value for it. Would you not feel a bit pi$$ed for lack of a better word? I know it is a business but I guess it would have been better off had the guy not made his remarks. Just one little guy in the ocean full of fish, so take it for what it is worth.

[Here]

Well, someone ruined my icecream by mentioning Coleman Foster. The lady that's always at their table is a big A-HOLE!!!!!!!!!!! She is the type of person this Texan would rather not have living in the state of Texas.

 

 

 

Jerry

[Bruceswar]

where in Tx are you?

[James_OldeTowne]

I think you're referring to Coleman's wife . Actually, she's a pretty nice lady once you get to know her a little. She is rather high-strung though....

 

In fact, I like Coleman too. He and his wife are some of the hardest working folks in the coin business. I've bought a lot from them, and sold them quite a few coins over the years, and have done quite well by them.

 

Sorry you had a bad experience .

 

James