1919, Russian Gold Ingot. 1 1

[Fenntucky Mike]

Interesting piece for sale over at Great Collections, link HERE. It cannot be directly tied to Tzar Nicholas II's Imperial Gold reserves by serial number but has a line of ownership traced back to the time of the Russian Revolution and a leader of the Russian Whites. 

Any chance it sells for over spot and if yes how much? The bidding with BP is close to spot price with 16 days to go. I think it goes over despite the lack of a direct tie/evidence to the gold hoard. 

It will be on display at the World's Fair of Money next week.

Image from Great Collections.

Edited August 2 by Fenntucky Mike

[RWB]

Try this:

"White Gold: The Imperial Russian Gold Reserve in the Anti-Bolshevik East, 1918-? (An Unconcluded Chapter in the History of the Russian Civil War)"

Jonathan D. Smele (Queen Mary University, London)

Europe-Asia Studies

Vol. 46, No. 8, Soviet and East European History (1994), pp. 1317-1347 (31 pages)

Published By: Taylor & Francis, Ltd.

Edited August 2 by RWB

[Henri Charriere]

C"mon @RWB !

Nobody said nuthin' about white gold..  The question was about white russkies.

That"'s easy.  A White Russian (and I don't even inbibe) is a cocktail made (not surprisingly) with vodka (which is universally referred as w'awed-kuh, in all ten time zones) coffee liquor and cream served with rice in an Old Fsshioned glass.  It's in your Red Book.  (Not that one! The small red bartenders bible.)

I see the OP is in a playful mood. Enquiring minds would have to check the GC lot listings to check weight, gold fineness and actual provenance.  All the numbers on that primitive, crude block are as helpful as hieroglyphics.  If it's any consolation, I would take a bullet for you, too, FM in case I run across that Dunes thingamajig you're looking for. 🤣

[GoldFinger1969]

I heard of a BLACK Russian. 

Roger, do you think that book or article confirms or lends credence to the story on GC that accompanies this ingot ?

I admit, nothing is PROVEN -- but if it is POSSIBLE this ingot's pedigree can be traced back to the Czar.....is the marketing appropriate ?

[Zebo]

Oberth purchased the ingot from a Pleshkov Jr. family member’s estate earlier this year.

The 44 oz. ingot hails from a direct descendant of Mikhail Pleshkov Jr., a prominent Russian colonel and aide-de-camp to Tsar Nicholas. Pleshkov Jr. was one of the leaders of the White movement in the Far East, and after its fall, emigrated to the United States where he died in 1956.
 

The story is plausible, but I’d like to see some documentation and analysis on the bar performed. At spot, it is a no brainer, but I believe that it will go for much over spot. There is a lot of cash out there looking for a home.

[Fenntucky Mike]

I'd like to know what they were doing using an auger to take a test sample.  The divot left by the drill point looks huge. 

In the GC description it also states "The face bears all the markings you would expect; serial number 908-87-5, weight 3 34 (current weight 3lbs .31oz)" implying that the "3 34" mark is lbs and oz which seems strange to me, I would have expected the weight to have been in grams or an older Russian unit of weight. 

Edited August 3 by Fenntucky Mike

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 8/3/2024 at 8:48 AM, Zebo said:

The story is plausible, but I’d like to see some documentation and analysis on the bar performed.

Agreed, if I was going to spend 100K on this I'd like to have some solid documentation of it's past ownership and not just an oral history. Maybe there has already been a study done with documentation to accompany the ingot. 

[RWB]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:25 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I heard of a BLACK Russian. 

Roger, do you think that book or article confirms or lends credence to the story on GC that accompanies this ingot ?

I admit, nothing is PROVEN -- but if it is POSSIBLE this ingot's pedigree can be traced back to the Czar.....is the marketing appropriate ?

It likely has factual information, but I have not read it. The bar irregularities suggest it was cast in a cold mold then quenched.

Edited August 3 by RWB

[Fenntucky Mike]

The ingot sold for $104,062.51 (includes BP), which is only a few thousand over spot based on AGW given in the lot description.

[RWB]

Reasonable given the scant background. Not even a simple modern XRF to reveal the alloy impurities. The evasive description raises considerable doubt. Reminds me of the phony "Western bars" and other trash John J. Ford cooked up to sell to collectors.

Edited August 24 by RWB

[Henri Charriere]

Probably heretical to even suggest it, but seeing as how I never cared for cast bars to begin with, this one's a bit too crude and primitive for my taste. (Obviously, I do not have the money to acquire it.)  My only objection is the mention of avoirdupois weights in relation to precious metals.  I don't trust fineness determined in a country during primitive times with a primitive calendar.

[Would you believe the USG INS certificate issued to my mother when she became a citizen sometime in the 1990's reads: FEBRUARY 31, 1921!]

Pounds and ounces have no business being used with gold.

How reliable is that fineness? And how was it determined. They couldn't even produce steel strong and reliable enough to use on the Trans-Siberian railway -- and to make matters worse, decided a single track was sufficient. But I digress.

Re that 44 oz.figure bandied about... again, was that Troy or Avoirdupois ounces?  We are talking 12 versus 16 ozs. so it is a significant figure.

If it were mine, unless irrefutable information is produced and integrated into a modern-day equivalent of a Certificate of Authenticity which I would expect would be the case here, I would pass on this.

As my mentor emeritus knows well, I do not relish the obligation of being put in a position of explaining, justifying or defending my acquisitions.  With accompanying documentation, I would prefer the acquistion speak for itself.

 

 

 

[RWB]

I wonder if the new owner will melt the thing and try again?

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/26/2024 at 7:28 PM, RWB said:

I wonder if the new owner will melt the thing and try again?

To what end, considering bars/ingots/ bullion coins are readily available with an undisputed .9999 fineness?  Melt this thing down and, besides destroying a possible unique historical relic, you may discover this humongous "door block" was not all it was cracked up to be. The owner sought this artifact for all its "attributes," as is, for reasons likely only z knows.  🤣

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/24/2024 at 1:00 PM, RWB said:

Reminds me of the phony "Western bars" and other trash John J. Ford cooked up to sell to collectors.

Don't leave us hanging.....