Pull The Trigger or Holster? I have 20 min to decide. 2 2

[FlyingAl]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:03 PM, VKurtB said:

The lighting prevents me from seeing what I would want to in order to see a matte proof, but what I CAN SEE is some really nice inner rims that dive almost vertically down into the fields. I do think Flying Al might be drinking to excess if he thinks it’s a 58. There is no wear, only the typical slight weakness on the large O in ONE, which is because it is opposite the high point on Lincoln’s shoulder. For those with less experience, look at these O’s. This is the reason they’re less than sharp.

Kurt, there is a slight color change on the beard and cheekbone, highly indicative of wear. Again, angles will make this one appear far better than it is. Regardless, there is no chance at all it's a 68. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/1/2023 at 8:03 PM, VKurtB said:

....I CAN SEE is some really nice inner rims that dive almost vertically down into the fields....

[Keen observation! With GF1969's assent, I shall designate this coin, as hereinabove described, with the highly-coveted attribute of "High-Wire II," the first being the MCMVII double eagle.]  🤣

Edited November 2, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Insertion of punctuation.

[VKurtB]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:33 PM, FlyingAl said:

Kurt, there is a slight color change on the beard and cheekbone, highly indicative of wear. Again, angles will make this one appear far better than it is. Regardless, there is no chance at all it's a 68. 

I agree, but a 4 or 5 is reasonable to me, and a 6 would not really shock me. I’m not seeing what you see on Lincoln.

Edited November 2, 2023 by VKurtB

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:31 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

You didn't see this coin in person, right ?

No only the photos. I did not have the coin in hand. If I were to have had it in my hand prior to bidding I might have bid MORE.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[VKurtB]

On 11/1/2023 at 9:37 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

No only the photos. I did not have the coin in hand. If I were to have had it in my hand prior to bidding I might have bid MORE.

About three years ago, I went “cold turkey”. I never bid on anything I haven’t seen in my hand anymore. The only exception is “junk coins” and bulk lots. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:46 PM, VKurtB said:

About three years ago, I went “cold turkey”. I never bid on anything I haven’t seen in my hand anymore. The only exception is “junk coins” and bulk lots. 

I look at many coins at auction each week. All my online dealers or auctions accept returns (within policy) which makes a bit of difference when I am vastly disappointed. I don't buy them all...I wait until one buys me.

[ldhair]

I don't believe it's a matte proof but the fields do have that look. The quick way to narrow these down is by the words ONE CENT. The letters would be really bold with square edges on a proof. I would grade the coin as 65 RB. Pretty coin. The nice toning drove the price to what it sold for. 

[zadok]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:39 AM, ldhair said:

I don't believe it's a matte proof but the fields do have that look. The quick way to narrow these down is by the words ONE CENT. The letters would be really bold with square edges on a proof. I would grade the coin as 65 RB. Pretty coin. The nice toning drove the price to what it sold for. 

...agree, it is not a proof...it is a marginal ms65 brown actually closer to a 64, the color could easily come back as questionable but diff to determine by photo, as presented it has eye appeal...basically sold for what it was worth, i would not have purchased the coin at that price....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:46 PM, VKurtB said:

About three years ago, I went “cold turkey”. I never bid on anything I haven’t seen in my hand anymore. The only exception is “junk coins” and bulk lots. 

That's understandable.  At least today with the TPGs you can be reasonably sure a coin is as it is graded -- imagine no TPGs and all these coins selling RAW with every Tom, Duck*, and Harry giving them a grade.  And circulation wear is tough to see so imagine all the AU coins going for MS money. 

I will say this:  I haven't run across too many posts where someone says that the (hi-res) pics from HA or GC, and the TPG grade, made them regret a purchase or a coin was way worse in-hand than online.

 

* Spelled differently because our AI or AI-less algorithim thinks I am saying a bad word !! 

Edited November 2, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:55 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

I look at many coins at auction each week. All my online dealers or auctions accept returns (within policy) which makes a bit of difference when I am vastly disappointed. I don't buy them all...I wait until one buys me.

Could you have returned this coin if you bid more and won the auction ?

Just curious....

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:26 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Could you have returned this coin if you bid more and won the auction ?

Just curious....

YES ...But it must be significantly different from the photos. IE Item not as described or photographed. I have sent back coins that did not match the luster in the photo or had unseen damage not described. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:25 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

That's understandable.  At least today with the TPGs you can be reasonably sure a coin is as it is graded -- imagine no TPGs and all these coins selling RAW with every Tom, , and Harry giving them a grade.  And circulation wear is tough to see so imagine all the AU coins going for MS money. 

I will say this:  I haven't run across too many posts where someone says that the (hi-res) pics from HA or GC, and the TPG grade, made them regret a purchase or a coin was way worse in-hand than online.

So after years of looking at raw coins in hand as well as photographing my own coins I have developed the basic ability to recognize exceptional surfaces on photographed coins. By understanding what a picture of a GREAT coin SHOULD look like I have been reasonably successful at raw coin purchases on line. In person raw I'm an animal. Take a look at my registry most of my coins were submitted raw by me or my local dealer. I am finishing my BS Washington Quarter 32 -64 set this year. All of those coins were picked raw by me and purchased online over a period of 2 years. Here's one....

Edited November 2, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:28 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

YES ...But it must be significantly different from the photos. IE Item not as described or photographed. I have sent back coins that did not match the luster in the photo or had unseen damage not described. 

If the guy says it will grade MS-66 and it is MS-64, that might be tough to justify.  But if it comes back circulated with an AU grade, I would think that's enough to reverse the purchase.

Sometimes photos are innocently deceptive.  I have a $10 Gold Certificate.....it looks GREAT from photos, most thought it was in the MS category from MS63-65 or so.  In fact, it's an EF and has some very hard-to-see folks/creases which simply don't show from photos; you don't have to hide them, they just can't be seen except with the naked eye and the proper lighting.

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:25 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

.... imagine no TPGs and all these coins selling RAW with every Tom, Duck*, and Harry giving them a grade.

* Spelled differently because our AI or AI-less algorithim thinks I am saying a bad word !! 

[Does that mean Clark, Cheney and Van Dyke would have each been asked to adopt a User Name?] 

Question answered. Each of their first names were deleted a microsecond before I pushed send. Now that's Moderation!  🤣

Edited November 2, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Insert editorial comment.

[Henri Charriere]

@GoldFinger1969 :

Original comment withdrawn.

As regarding banknote grading, there are many more of those than there are TPGS, each of which use their own scale and use of descriptors such as EPQ, for Exceptional Paper Quality, followed by a two-digit number.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Broadening the "body of knowledge."

[zadok]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:36 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

If the guy says it will grade MS-66 and it is MS-64, that might be tough to justify.  But if it comes back circulated with an AU grade, I would think that's enough to reverse the purchase.

Sometimes photos are innocently deceptive.  I have a $10 Gold Certificate.....it looks GREAT from photos, most thought it was in the MS category from MS63-65 or so.  In fact, it's an EF and has some very hard-to-see folks/creases which simply don't show from photos; you don't have to hide them, they just can't be seen except with the naked eye and the proper lighting.

...most online auction site sellers do not guarantee what a raw coin will grade, they may express an opinion but almost never a numerical grade on raw coins...very few will even entertain refunding based on what a coin gets graded by the tpgs...hence, the bigger houses normally sell only already graded coins....

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:40 PM, zadok said:

...most online auction site sellers do not guarantee what a raw coin will grade, they may express an opinion but almost never a numerical grade on raw coins...very few will even entertain refunding based on what a coin gets graded by the tpgs...hence, the bigger houses normally sell only already graded coins....

I buy raw coins at auction regularly. It is the major source of my eventually slabbed coins. I almost NEVER buy already slabbed. But my rule is inviolable - never from photos, I must see it in my hand. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:57 PM, VKurtB said:

.... I almost NEVER buy already slabbed. But my rule is inviolable - never from photos, I must see it in my hand. 

But what if that is not possible?

I don't know to whom your doctor or dentist go when they seek professional help themselves, but surely you must have a go-to person to turn to whose tastes in coins and grading skills align with yours when it is simply not possible to "have it in your hand"?  

[zadok]

On 11/2/2023 at 2:57 PM, VKurtB said:

I buy raw coins at auction regularly. It is the major source of my eventually slabbed coins. I almost NEVER buy already slabbed. But my rule is inviolable - never from photos, I must see it in my hand. 

...i buy raw as well after inspection but i was saying online raw is virtually never guaranteed as to a numerical grade....

[zadok]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:08 PM, Henri Charriere said:

But what if that is not possible?

I don't know to whom your doctor or dentist go when they seek professional help themselves, but surely you must have a go-to person to turn to whose tastes in coins and grading skills align with yours when it is simply not possible to "have it in your hand"?  

...its pretty simple...u just dont buy that coin....

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:23 PM, zadok said:

...its pretty simple...u just dont buy that coin....

No me! No me! From a simple wooden chair in my kitchen, I managed to assemble what you yourself conceded was an admirable # 1 ranked set without seeing or speaking to any seller and very often without a photo or description of the coin. I did my due diligence and all I needed to know was A- what's the grade? And B- how much? That's it. Nothing more. Howard Hughes had Noah Dietrich and never spoke or appeared in public anywhere until Clifford Irving deluded himself into believing he could write Hughes' authorized biography, and get away with it. WRONG.

No way in the world in this day and age one collector's tastes and grading skills have never aligned with another's. I would rather resign my membership than tolerate a hole in my album due to inability to locomote.  Would I trust the Great Zadok? Yes, because my faith in him is unconditional. Based on his musings, he has the right stuff!  With the globetrotter, I don't know if his in-hand acquisitions are incidental to his travels, or vice versa.  🤔 

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 6:23 PM, zadok said:

...its pretty simple...u just dont buy that coin....

Ding! Ding! Ding! Winnah! It’s why I went to London, Edinburgh, and Inverness, and why I’ll go to Berlin. Travel isn’t a “cost” to me; it’s a “feature”. I love travel every bit as much as coins.

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:55 PM, VKurtB said:

Ding! Ding! Ding! Winnah! It’s why I went to London, and why I’ll go to Berlin. Travel isn’t a “cost” to me; it’s a “feature”. I love travel every bit as much as coins.

...maybe u could buy coins as u travel n hit the single malt fountains....

[VKurtB]

On 11/2/2023 at 7:59 PM, zadok said:

...maybe u could buy coins as u travel n hit the single malt fountains....

Who says I’m not? Travel, coins, and the local spirits where I am make a great trio. A Scottish shilling, some Dalwhinnie, and a tour of Culloden Battlefield make Inverness interesting. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:01 PM, VKurtB said:

Who says I’m not? Travel, coins, and the local spirits where I am make a great trio. A Scottish shilling, some Dalwhinnie, and a tour of Culloden Battlefield make Inverness interesting. 

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:55 PM, VKurtB said:

Ding! Ding! Ding! Winnah! It’s why I went to London, Edinburgh, and Inverness, and why I’ll go to Berlin. Travel isn’t a “cost” to me; it’s a “feature”. I love travel every bit as much as coins.

VKurtB: The international man of intruige.

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:11 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

VKurtB: The international man of intruige.

I allowed two passports to go mostly unused to expiration. THIS one is gonna work its butt off.  There’s only a few places I REFUSE to go. One is California. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:14 AM, VKurtB said:

I allowed two passports to go mostly unused to expiration. THIS one is gonna work its butt off.  There’s only a few places I REFUSE to go. One is California. 

Whew..thats a relief we dodged a bullet.

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:29 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

Whew..thats a relief we dodged a bullet.

If I want to expose myself to weird cultures, I'll go to the original source. It's one reason I don't use PCGS. I'm afraid my coins will carry that California Mind Virus back here.

Edited November 3, 2023 by VKurtB

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:30 AM, VKurtB said:

If I want to expose myself to weird cultures, I'll go to the original source. It's one reason I don't use PCGS. I'm afraid my coins will carry that California Mind Virus back here.

I don't think non weird cultures want you exposing yourself to them either..just sayin

Edited November 3, 2023 by Mike Meenderink