Pull The Trigger or Holster? I have 20 min to decide. 2 2

[Mike Meenderink]

 I will pay up to $180.00 high bid @ auction for this BEAUTIFUL 1910 P Wheat Cent raw in MS68 RB (IMO). I believe this is a very high grade coin. Opinions?

[Henri Charriere]

You're running out of time.  I assume you know its Fair Market Value, about how many were minted, certified, whether others exist in this grade and none others have been graded finer. Don't let someone outbid you at the Finish Line. Place your bid and we can discuss whether yours was a wise decision after the dust clears.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Restore missing letters.

[RWB]

Since the OP claims extensive numismatic expertise, why is he asking members here? A need for validation?

[Mike Meenderink]

High bid $265 my high $185 outbid...;( SOLD welp

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:42 AM, RWB said:

Since the OP claims extensive numismatic expertise, why is he asking members here? A need for validation?

Only from you RWB  thanks

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:25 AM, Henri Charriere said:

You're running out of time.  I assume you know its Fair Market Value, about how many were minted, certified, whether others exist in this grade and none others have be graded finer. Don't let someone outbid you at the Finish Line. Place your bid and we can discuss whether yours was a wise decision after the dust clears.

Yes this would be a very valuable coin in MS 68 RB and a solo. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/1/2023 at 12:48 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Yes this would be a very valuable coin in MS 68 RB and a solo. 

It’s very nice, but I’m not seeing 68 nice. Those are quite the rims. You sure it’s not a proof?

Edited November 1, 2023 by VKurtB

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 11:43 AM, VKurtB said:

It’s very nice, but I’m not seeing 68 nice. Those are quite the rims. You sure it’s not a proof?

It might be..but I'd need it in hand to know. Unfortunately it went out of my range for a Lincoln Wheat. Its very close to 68 the surface is stupendous. The strike is perfect. The colors are fantastic.. Its one of the nicest I've ever come across at auction.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/1/2023 at 1:48 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Yes this would be a very valuable coin in MS 68 RB and a solo. 

Does a coin like this come up often ?  If so, then don't worry.

What is FMV and recent auction sales for this coin ?  If $200, then I hate going 30% above that.  If it doesn't come up that often in this grade, then 30% and $100 or so are relatively tolerable premiums to pay, percentage-wise and in absolute dollars.

[VKurtB]

On 11/1/2023 at 1:54 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

It might be..but I'd need it in hand to know.

Agree 100%.

On 11/1/2023 at 2:03 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Does a coin like this come up often ?

No, this coin is exceptional.

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 12:03 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Does a coin like this come up often ?  If so, then don't worry.

What is FMV and recent auction sales for this coin ?  If $200, then I hate going 30% above that.  If it doesn't come up that often in this grade, then 30% and $100 or so are relatively tolerable premiums to pay, percentage-wise and in absolute dollars.

Realistically if the coin graded where I believe it should 3k + would not be outlandish. There are none in MS68 RB..if its a proof..whoha watch out big money.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mike Meenderink
spelling

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:13 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Realistically if the coin graded where I belive it should 3k + would not be outlandish. There are none in MS68 RB..if its a proof..whoha watch out big money.

It could be a $3,000 coin and only went for $265 ?  Interesting.....

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 1:18 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It could be a $3,000 coin and only went for $265 ?  Interesting.....

Yup believe it or not there are very few people that would look at this coin and know how nice it really is.  Now..  just because I think its MS 68 does not mean a TPG would agree. It's definitely a 67 RB all day.  So the rub is whos going to take the chance for the $300 or so? I would have at $185 since if it graded 66 RB ($375) I'd be ok. In 67 it's even worth around $2000+. I do this each week. I have purchased some fantastic coins found at auction just like this. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

I am skeptical it would get a 68.  It's very hard to grade from the photos. You may have missed an opportunity, or dodged a bullet.  I am inclined to think the latter.  The coin is a lovely color and a nice coin, but brown for sure.  I think $265 is a risky toss-up on the break even. 

[Sandon]

   I'm wondering whether the OP and/or @VKurtB are being facetious. I recall both of them advising newer collectors, as I do, that one can't accurately grade coins, especially those that are uncirculated or nearly so, from photographs and that in-person inspection is essential for grading. This is especially true when one is looking for uncertified coins that could realistically receive unusually high grades from grading services.

   The single, uncropped photos of each side of the 1910 Lincoln cent, which were taken from an angle, show a coin that would likely receive a "brown" (BN) rather than "red and brown" designation.  Some "BN" copper coins also realize high prices; but, although the luster on this coin looks nice in the photos, in my experience they usually have a bluish or violet color. The obverse has some flat spots on Lincoln's cheek and beard, which suggest "rub" and wouldn't preclude a "mint state" grade nowadays but could lower it. The coin also has several small obverse "carbon spots" near the rim beneath the "0" in the date. Even these factors that we can see in the photos don't seem to make a "68" or even "67" grade likely. As for @VKurtB's suggestion that the coin could be a proof, this is highly doubtful as it lacks the broad rims and grainy surfaces of a matte proof issue.

[FlyingAl]

This thread is ridiculous. I sure hope Kurt is joking. 
 

The coin would likely grade out at AU58RB due to the wear on the obverse. The PCGS Price Guide does not list values for AU58s, as they are effecting worthless beyond a few dollars. 

[Coinbuf]

The op coin is not a proof, not even close.   It is also not anywhere nice enough to grade as MS68, not even close.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Coinbuf

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:34 PM, Sandon said:

   I'm wondering whether the OP and/or @VKurtB are being facetious. I recall both of them advising newer collectors, as I do, that one can't accurately grade coins, especially those that are uncirculated or nearly so, from photographs and that in-person inspection is essential for grading. This is especially true when one is looking for uncertified coins that could realistically receive unusually high grades from grading services.

   The single, uncropped photos of each side of the 1910 Lincoln cent, which were taken from an angle, show a coin that would likely receive a "brown" (BN) rather than "red and brown" designation.  Some "BN" copper coins also realize high prices; but, although the luster on this coin looks nice in the photos, in my experience they usually have a bluish or violet color. The obverse has some flat spots on Lincoln's cheek and beard, which suggest "rub" and wouldn't preclude a "mint state" grade nowadays but could lower it. The coin also has several small obverse "carbon spots" near the rim beneath the "0" in the date. Even these factors that we can see in the photos don't seem to make a "68" or even "67" grade likely. As for @VKurtB's suggestion that the coin could be a proof, this is highly doubtful as it lacks the broad rims and grainy surfaces of a matte proof issue.

Excellent breakdown..Sandon   As to your grading comment: Do we all not reach a point in our hobby that our eyes can recognize certain characteristics on coins (photos or in hand) that can lead us to make educated decisions that are not perfect but sometimes worth the risk? This is one of them. You are correct I always refuse to grade others coins by photos only but for myself I look at them +- one grade up or down then I decide. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mike Meenderink

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:37 PM, Coinbuf said:

The op coin is not a proof, not even close.   It is also not anywhere nice enough to grade as MS68, not even close.

It could be a matte proof. It has the strike and details. I will never know I didn't win it. 

[Coinbuf]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:48 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

It could be a matte proof. It has the strike and details. I will never know I didn't win it. 

No it could not be, I know and I also did not win it.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Coinbuf

[Mike Meenderink]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:36 PM, FlyingAl said:

This thread is ridiculous. I sure hope Kurt is joking. 
 

The coin would likely grade out at AU58RB due to the wear on the obverse. The PCGS Price Guide does not list values for AU58s, as they are effecting worthless beyond a few dollars. 

This coin has NO circulation wear present at ALL.. the bow tie obv is as struck and the wheat stalks rev are perfect. Disagree with your assessment.

[FlyingAl]

On 11/1/2023 at 4:52 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

This coin has NO circulation wear present at ALL.. the bow tie obv is as struck and the wheat stalks rev are perfect. Disagree with your assessment.

Excellent, please feel free to. I wonder if you hadn't gotten so lucky and won the coin, and then sent it in, and then received a grade of AU58, what you would have done?

Disagreed with the TPG?

[Sandon]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:39 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Do we all not reach a point in our hobby that our eyes can recognize certain characteristics on coins (photos or in hand) that can lead us to make educated decisions that are not perfect but sometimes worth the risk?

       For me, this would be true for coins viewed "in hand" but not from photos alone, at least not where the coin was uncertified. For example, a coin can be extensively hairlined, but the hairlines can be invisible when viewed or photographed from certain angles, giving the coin the appearance of a gem. The same coin can look completely different in different photos for many other reasons.

     I've occasionally been disappointed with certified coins bought on the basis of auction photos and attend lot viewings and coin shows to obtain coins after in-person examination whenever possible. I've sometimes gotten good deals on coins that were better looking in-hand than in their photos, as the photos may have weakened the online bidding.   

[RWB]

On 11/1/2023 at 1:44 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Only from you RWB  thanks

You're welcome! Well earned, too!

[VKurtB]

On 11/1/2023 at 4:37 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

Yup believe it or not there are very few people that would look at this coin and know how nice it really is.  Now..  just because I think its MS 68 does not mean a TPG would agree. It's definitely a 67 RB all day.  So the rub is whos going to take the chance for the $300 or so? I would have at $185 since if it graded 66 RB ($375) I'd be ok. In 67 it's even worth around $2000+. I do this each week. I have purchased some fantastic coins found at auction just like this. 

I’m not really choked up about the surface it’s shown on.

[VKurtB]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:34 PM, Sandon said:

   I'm wondering whether the OP and/or @VKurtB are being facetious. I recall both of them advising newer collectors, as I do, that one can't accurately grade coins, especially those that are uncirculated or nearly so, from photographs and that in-person inspection is essential for grading. This is especially true when one is looking for uncertified coins that could realistically receive unusually high grades from grading services.

   The single, uncropped photos of each side of the 1910 Lincoln cent, which were taken from an angle, show a coin that would likely receive a "brown" (BN) rather than "red and brown" designation.  Some "BN" copper coins also realize high prices; but, although the luster on this coin looks nice in the photos, in my experience they usually have a bluish or violet color. The obverse has some flat spots on Lincoln's cheek and beard, which suggest "rub" and wouldn't preclude a "mint state" grade nowadays but could lower it. The coin also has several small obverse "carbon spots" near the rim beneath the "0" in the date. Even these factors that we can see in the photos don't seem to make a "68" or even "67" grade likely. As for @VKurtB's suggestion that the coin could be a proof, this is highly doubtful as it lacks the broad rims and grainy surfaces of a matte proof issue.

The lighting prevents me from seeing what I would want to in order to see a matte proof, but what I CAN SEE is some really nice inner rims that dive almost vertically down into the fields. I do think Flying Al might be drinking to excess if he thinks it’s a 58. There is no wear, only the typical slight weakness on the large O in ONE, which is because it is opposite the high point on Lincoln’s shoulder. For those with less experience, look at these O’s. This is the reason they’re less than sharp.

Edited November 2, 2023 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

 

On 11/1/2023 at 7:16 PM, FlyingAl said:

....I wonder if you hadn't gotten so lucky and won the coin, and then sent it in, and then received a grade of AU58, what you would have done?

Disagreed with the TPG?

No, the prevailing practice is to resubmit until you get an opinion you can live with. 😉 

[VKurtB]

On 11/1/2023 at 7:05 PM, Henri Charriere said:

 

No, the prevailing practice is to resubmit until you get an opinion you can live with. 😉 

Sad but undeniably true.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:34 PM, Sandon said:

I recall both of them advising newer collectors, as I do, that one can't accurately grade coins, especially those that are uncirculated or nearly so, from photographs and that in-person inspection is essential for grading. This is especially true when one is looking for uncertified coins that could realistically receive unusually high grades from grading services.

I generally agree with that.....in fact, I have seen the same Saint-Gaudens coin with the lighting slightly changed and the coin went from solid 65/66 to low-60's from my perspective.  I couldn't believe just changing the lighting angle (and maybe changing some camera settings, I'm not sure) could make that much of a difference.  But it did.   

As a general rule, if the coin is properly photographed, you shouldn't be off TOO much though lighting could make a coin look better at a key inflection point grade where it commands alot more $$$.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:52 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

This coin has NO circulation wear present at ALL.. the bow tie obv is as struck and the wheat stalks rev are perfect. Disagree with your assessment.

You didn't see this coin in person, right ?

I'm used to buying larger coins from photos or in-person...small denomination coins are definitely tougher for someone like me.