If the U.S. Mint were to discontinue its one-cent line... 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

Would all cents now extant, become rarer? No. The mintages would remain the same unless copper became a strategic metal, reducing supply via melts, or vast unknown older hoards were discovered. Varieties and errors would continue to be identified but their supply, as always, would remain relatively static and limited.

As one of the few coin collectors who strongly feels the one-cent piece serves no useful purpose, there would be little point in discussing their faux counterparts of the late 20th and early 21st century.

What's your take on this inevitability?

[Greenstang]

They certainly have not been missed in Canada, you simply adjust up or down for cash.  
 Credit Cards and other electronic transactions still use the cent as it doesn’t matter then.  
And you are correct, there has been no major increase in the value of them. Common cents
do not have much value and the rarer cents are still worth about the same.  
When is the US going to catch up with the times and ditch the “penny”.

[VKurtB]

On 6/16/2023 at 5:07 PM, Greenstang said:

They certainly have not been missed in Canada, you simply adjust up or down for cash.  
 Credit Cards and other electronic transactions still use the cent as it doesn’t matter then.  
And you are correct, there has been no major increase in the value of them. Common cents
do not have much value and the rarer cents are still worth about the same.  
When is the US going to catch up with the times and ditch the “penny”.

Well, the Canadian uncirculated sets look funny for lack of a copper red coin since 2013. It just doesn't look right.

[RWB]

It would save a lot of money that is now wasted. Do the same with the nickel and require down/up rounding on all cash sales. (Keep non-cash sales to the exact cent.)

[R__Rash]

On 6/16/2023 at 5:03 PM, RWB said:

It would save a lot of money that is now wasted. Do the same with the nickel and require down/up rounding on all cash sales. (Keep non-cash sales to the exact cent.)

And extinguish all sales taxes?

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/16/2023 at 8:43 PM, R__Rash said:

And extinguish all sales taxes?

The sales tax ain't gonna solve the trillion-dollar never- ending debt crisis, but according to one member's calculations, a $100,000 "contribution" from each American might. 🤣  Back on Track: Rounding, up or down, as a seasoned member has suggested, ought to solve that. After all, it all even outs in the end.

[R__Rash]

On 6/16/2023 at 6:59 PM, Henri Charriere said:

The sales tax ain't gonna solve the trillion-dollar never- ending debt crisis, but according to one member's calculations, a $100,000 "contribution" from each American might. 🤣  Back on Track: Rounding, up or down, as a seasoned member has suggested, ought to solve that. After all, it all even outs in the end.

Yes, but only if you always pay with plastic.?

[RWB]

On 6/16/2023 at 8:43 PM, R__Rash said:

And extinguish all sales taxes?

It would have no effect on state sales taxes. Rounding up/down produces a net gain or loss of no more than 3-cents per year for anyone or any state -- it all averages out on cash transactions. And there would be no rounding on non-cash transactions.

[Think it through.... there are 3 options in rounding, 1 up, 2 down, 3 no change. #3 has no effect so we eliminate it. #1 and #2 are like heads or tails on a coin flip: 10,000 flips will produce 5,000 heads and 5,000 tails.]

[cladking]

On 6/16/2023 at 4:18 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Would all cents now extant, become rarer? No. The mintages would remain the same unless copper became a strategic metal, reducing supply via melts, or vast unknown older hoards were discovered. Varieties and errors would continue to be identified but their supply, as always, would remain relatively static and limited.

As one of the few coin collectors who strongly feels the one-cent piece serves no useful purpose, there would be little point in discussing their faux counterparts of the late 20th and early 21st century.

What's your take on this inevitability?

Pennies are a nuisance individually and a burden collectively.  More than 80% are also toxic and highly reactive. If they went out of production billions would be melted but they are so valueless that people wouldn't bother redeeming all of them and even more would end up in the garbage stream.   They look awful in circulation and are like an albatross we all wear for an economy based on greed and waste.  

Some good would come of it though.  A few more people would begin collecting coins and the scarcity of some of these coins would finally come to light.  People have no idea of the massive attrition on the early dates like the '66 or many of the zinc coins like the '84.  Collectors don't seek most of these coins so they are not aware that some dates like the '68 are almost universally tarnished. 

A nickel isn't even real money any longer either but it is necessary to make change.  It should be reduced in size and made of copper or aluminum (aluminum bronze might be ideal).  

[RWB]

If the dime were the smallest coin denomination, the maximum rounding error (over time) would be 4-cents for cash, and 0 for non-cash.

[cladking]

On 6/17/2023 at 11:28 AM, RWB said:

If the dime were the smallest coin denomination, the maximum rounding error (over time) would be 4-cents for cash, and 0 for non-cash.

But the five cent is still needed to bridge the gap between the dime and quarter.   If a seller owed you 15c on a transaction you'd be out a nickel.  My guess is there would be mayhem.  One of the local stores didn't want to give out in change because of the covid emergency so they put up a sign that said "exact change please" and then tried to keep any overage.  There was surprisingly little complaining but when I told them they'd have to round down I got my change.  

Recoining the nickel into a smaller aluminum bronze (non legal tender) coin would be a huge money maker for the mint since the old coins can be melted to make clad coins realizing their full metallic value and then replacing them with coins that cost only a couple cents to produce.  They would also make money be recalling the pennies in circulation.  Of course transportation cost on pennies is astronomical but there's enough copper left to pay these costs.  The bigger savings would be in no longer having to produce the ugly toxic little pennies and the huge cost savings.  This would free up time and equipment to improve the striking and quality of the coins.  Instead of having some of the ugliest and dirtiest coins in the world we could have coinage among the best without laying off hundreds of mint workers and causing fist fights in the grocery stores.  

The only other option is to eliminate all coins except the dime but this would waste 70 billion quarters in circulation and add another $18,000,000,000.00 to the national debt.  I'm fully aware that with the way Congress spends money and allocate it to corporations that this is less than a drop in the bucket but it is still needless waste.  Or we could waste 70 billion dimes and round to the nearest quarter but dimes almost have a little value and  no one would want to lose even a little bit.  

This might all be a moot point if we're going to need a wheelbarrow full of hundred dollar bills to buy a loaf of bread.  So long as people don't care about waste or even their change and never demand quality in anything it may happen sooner rather than later.  

 

Pennies are a disgrace and the money system is a wreck.  Government really wants everything to be electronic so everything is visible.  The real cost of making a penny is almost four cents now days and they are so worthless people won't pick them up.  Even brand new ones are usually tarnished and spotted right in the roll. After even brief circulation they corrode.  

[ldhair]

It would not bother me if the production of the cent would end. As the supply slows down the roll searchers will probably not be happy but I don't think most of the public will care. It might even get folks to start cashing in what they have laying around. Some important coins could come back in circulation. 

[Zebo]

I’d like cents to stick around. I do not collect them nor do I sell them. Here’s a novel thought - instead of inflating everything why not make them mean something. Same with nickels, dimes, quarters and half dollars for that matter.
Then again - i m not crazy about the alloys used for them these days. 

[R__Rash]

“He who steals my purse steals trash”, but if I offer up to the beggar an open hand of my change and suggest, take what you need, they always snatch the subliminal silver first. 
 

if it were not for taxes and interest rates calculated similar to the decimal places of pi there would be no need for a coin equivalent to cover the possible round up or down to 1% of a dollar that in accumulation covers all debt and calculations of growth/wealth. Merchants/venders would be more than happy to oblige the rounding up to compensate.(inflate)

 

 

 

[R__Rash]

On 6/17/2023 at 11:45 AM, ldhair said: It might even get folks to start cashing in what they have laying around. Some important coins could come back in circulation. 

They better do it now before there is no need for them, they could cash in for melt value after the fact and the only circulation would have to be between die hard collectors, there won’t be a cent bowl by the cash register at the pub……?

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/17/2023 at 12:58 PM, cladking said:

But the five cent is still needed to bridge the gap between the dime and quarter.   If a seller owed you 15c on a transaction you'd be out a nickel.  My guess is there would be mayhem.  One of the local stores didn't want to give out in change because of the covid emergency so they put up a sign that said "exact change please" and then tried to keep any overage.  There was surprisingly little complaining but when I told them they'd have to round down I got my change....  

FWIW... Unlike the illegal marijuana dispensaries which have sprung up all over town (NYC) and conduct their illicit activities on a cash-only (tax-free) basis -- understandably attracting the unwanted attention of armed robbers -- "Farmers' Markets,"  depending on location, do not accept cash for purchases of fruits and vegetables! Plastic is okay and so are state electronic benefit card(s) commonly called E.B.T. cards which are used to convert an available balance to wooden tokens (an example of which I once posted on member J.B.'s "Token Tuesday" thread) in denominations of $1, $5. and $10. Printed unobtrusively on each token are two points: "Eligible Foods Only" and "NO CHANGE GIVEN". Irrespective of one's views on "freeloaders" and folks who subsist on fixed low incomes, I think it fair to say it is inherently unfair to legally deprive any citizen of monies owed in the amount of a few cents to just under a dollar unless, of course, he buys more. I suspect many members were wholly unaware of these perfectly lawful transactions practiced routinely.

[cladking]

On 6/18/2023 at 9:29 PM, Henri Charriere said:

FWIW... Unlike the illegal marijuana dispensaries which have sprung up all over town (NYC) and conduct their illicit activities on a cash-only (tax-free) basis -- understandably attracting the unwanted attention of armed robbers -- "Farmers' Markets,"  depending on location, do not accept cash for purchases of fruits and vegetables! Plastic is okay and so are state electronic benefit card(s) commonly called E.B.T. cards which are used to convert an available balance to wooden tokens (an example of which I once posted on member J.B.'s "Token Tuesday" thread) in denominations of $1, $5. and $10. Printed unobtrusively on each token are two points: "Eligible Foods Only" and "NO CHANGE GIVEN". Irrespective of one's views on "freeloaders" and folks who subsist on fixed low incomes, I think it fair to say it is inherently unfair to legally deprive any citizen of monies owed in the amount of a few cents to just under a dollar unless, of course, he buys more. I suspect many members were wholly unaware of these perfectly lawful transactions practiced routinely.

I'm not sure of your point here but I certainly believe we each have the right to buy as much as we want and to get all of his change.  However, I do not believe "pennies" are "change".   There must be some smallest increment of "money" and this smallest increment is set at a level at which neither buyer nor seller stands to lose.  One cent is obviously far less than this level and must be eliminated about 1975.  Our economy has been damaged by these coins for many decades now.  

[olympicsos]

The mint doesn't have to rely on Congress to discontinue the penny. Pennies can still be collectors items and they can even have the one cent coin be a large cent just like how we have silver dollars sold as collectibles. They can keep the cent as NCLT. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/19/2023 at 10:06 AM, cladking said:

I'm not sure of your point here but I certainly believe we each have the right to buy as much as we want and to get all of his change....

To he who sat me down and patiently explained the utility of clad coinage, I offer the following clarification relying on z's universally acclaimed style manual of writing...

... food stamps are no longer being used having been replaced by state electronic benefit transfer (EBT) cards.... at some NYC outdoor "green markets," (primarily in sketchy neighborhoods) patrons must "purchase" at face value wooden tokens in the amounts of 1, 5 and 10 dollars at a EBT kiosk. However,  if your purchase amount, e.g., totals $1.45 or $4.25, you would have to give the merchant $2. or $5., respectively, knowing full well you would not be getting any change back... your only option is to  buy more goods closer to an even dollar amount... i believe the foregoing is an example of consequential "rounding-off" taken to an extreme, and is a slap in the face to the food insecure who are encoraged to eat more healthily with an emphasis on fruits and vegetables--that ironically comes with a little-known penalty.... to my knowledge this has gone on unchallenged for decades.