CRYPTO - SBF has been Arrested in the Bahamas 0

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/12/2022 at 9:30 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

hubris
noun

arrogance, conceit, haughtiness, hauteur, pride, self-importance, egotism, pomposity, superciliousness, superiority; informal big-headedness, cockiness.

There are those who would beg to differ, but I feel this fits me to a T, at times.  I don't know if I would go so far as to suggest ""Q.A." would be a suitable synonym though.     

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/13/2022 at 10:16 AM, World Colonial said:

....I'm going to make the wild guess that the customer funds....

"Funds"?  You mean these "now you see it, now you don't" things were actually tangible?  Me thinks it was a good thing this was nipped in the bud comparatively early on. It was an embarrassment to me to hear so many people talk about something I knew (and still don't know) anything about.        

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:03 PM, World Colonial said:

....  Anyone who pays something for nothing should expect to lose everything....

Cryptomogul:  "Well, see, that's the thing.  It's not "nothing."  It's just something that you do not understand, or is beyond your comprehension. That's where we come in.  We do all the thinking for you.  Certainly, you don't think all these investors, graduates of some of the finest higher institutions of learning, would sink their hard-earned money, much of it presumably inherited, into "nothing," do you?  Here, (sotto voce) I am not suppose to show you this, but look at some of our clients.  These are people with name-recognition. Prominent people, from all walks of life. These are people who didn't get to be who they are by making rash, ill-informed decisions. Have you seen how high crypto has gone?  So what's it going to be?  You in or out?..."

And that's how it all happened, in a nutshell.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:19 PM, VKurtB said:

You DO KNOW both parents are hiding out in the Bahamas, too, right?

Visiting their son.  Hey, I have no love lost for a pair of West Coast professors and their spoiled son.

Both parents probably know that like Darren (Cosmo Kramer's intern at Kramerica, Inc. )....he's going away for a very long time. 

[Zebo]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:38 PM, VKurtB said:

You can do anything as long as you buy off the right flavor of politician. Heck, the “gentle lady” from South Central Los Angeles even blew SBF a kiss at the end of a previous hearing. Nobody cares about receiving dirty money until they get caught. 

And then they still don’t care because they know that they won’t be prosecuted or disciplined in any meaningful fashion.

[GoldFinger1969]

The fly in the ointment is this relationship with the other 800 pound gorilla in crypto trading, Binance.  

Turns out Binance owed 20% of FTX and right before the collapse FTX bought back that stake for $2 billion.  That's REAL CASH and assets for something that was seed corn a few years earlier.  Part of the transaction was apparently paid for in the FTX token which Binance said they'd be dumping all $500 MM of -- and announced on Twitter.

You NEVER announce a sale of stock on Twitter.... and certainly not half-a-billion dollars worth !! .  When FTX's in-house proprietary token collapsed in price following the announcement/sale, FTX was cooked.

Kevin O'Leary of "Shark Tank" fame, an investor and spokesman for FTX, thinks Binance DELIBERATELY drove FTX into bankruptcy to have a monopoly in the market. 

This expenditure -- done so FTX supposedly could get licenses in new jurisdictions (Binance would not comply with disclosure rules as long as they were tied to FTX) -- was huge compared to the other monies siphoned off.  Maybe the Binance deal was the final nail in the coffin...maybe combined with other questionable transactions it stretched SBF and FTX to the limit...whatever.

We'll see what Special Master Ray says. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:11 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Kevin O'Leary of "Shark Tank" fame, an investor and spokesman for FTX, thinks Binance DELIBERATELY drove FTX into bankruptcy to have a monopoly in the market. 

It's not possible to have a monopoly on nothing, since by definition, anyone can claim that nothing (crypto) is actually something and create another token which is what FTX did with FTT.  But then, that's the kind of stupidity which happens in an unprecedented mania.

His claim is also based upon the assumption that Binance will be able to reduce or eliminate (all other) competition due to their supposed reputational advantage.  That's not going to work either.  If mainstream finance ever decides to get into the "crypto business" (with regulatory approval), Binance will lose their supposed "first mover" and reputational advantage rapidly.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:29 AM, World Colonial said:

It's not possible to have a monopoly on nothing, since by definition, anyone can claim that nothing (crypto) is actually something and create another token which is what FTX did with FTT.  But then, that's the kind of stupidity which happens in an unprecedented mania. His claim is also based upon the assumption that Binance will be able to reduce or eliminate (all other) competition due to their supposed reputational advantage.  That's not going to work either.  If mainstream finance ever decides to get into the "crypto business" (with regulatory approval), Binance will lose their supposed "first mover" and reputational advantage rapidly.

The Binance CEO -- known as "CZ" -- didn't exactly knock it out of the park yesterday when CNBC grilled him.

Today I believe Jim Cramer said your money might be safer with DraftKings* than with Binance !!!  

 

 

* Gambling & Fantasy sports website

Edited December 16, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[GoldFinger1969]

Q Says:  "My considered opinion: he is not smart enough to be Evil.  This schlub will tell them everything they want to know.  The real shame of all this is a lot of people lost a lot of money on something they cannot even begin to explain."

You would think anybody worth billions would realize that if he is caught he's going to lose it all AND go to jail.  So a part of me DOES believe that he may have thought he was only "temporarily" borrowing the funds and would replenish after a no-lose, no-risk gambit made the money back.

Or something like that.

This $2 billion Binance buyback, even if bought with phoney-baloney tokens, is interesting.

Gotta wait for Special Master Ray to untangle this.  Lots of parties with different interests here and lots of them (all of them ?) are lying. 

[VKurtB]

On 12/14/2022 at 9:25 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Cryptomogul:  "Well, see, that's the thing.  It's not "nothing."  It's just something that you do not understand, or is beyond your comprehension. That's where we come in.  We do all the thinking for you.  Certainly, you don't think all these investors, graduates of some of the finest higher institutions of learning, would sink their hard-earned money, much of it presumably inherited, into "nothing," do you?  Here, (sotto voce) I am not suppose to show you this, but look at some of our clients.  These are people with name-recognition. Prominent people, from all walks of life. These are people who didn't get to be who they are by making rash, ill-informed decisions. Have you seen how high crypto has gone?  So what's it going to be?  You in or out?..."

And that's how it all happened, in a nutshell.

You were clearly there, standing and watching. They (SBF and the Ugloid plus whoever) offered Taylor Swift a hundred million dollar FTX endorsement deal, and she turned them down. Not everybody’s as dumb as Tom Brady, apparently. “Hey Damon, do you like apples? Well you’re being sued by FTX investors. How do you like THEM apples?”

They even scammed the Mercedes Formula 1 race team!! It’s getting REALLY REALLY hard to respect ANYONE in business anymore. My electricity supplier is a co-op in which all rate-payers are owners, in the DEEP SOUTH for cryin’ out loud!

Edited December 16, 2022 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 12/14/2022 at 11:55 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

....Both parents probably know that like Darren (Cosmo Kramer's intern at Kramerica, Inc. )....he's going away for a very long time. 

Bernie Madoff got hit hard (150 years) because he knew at his age, he didn't have much longer to live.  This guy's gonna spill his guts and get a nominal term, for ahem, "cooperation."  Sammy the Bull pleaded to 19 murders and wound up serving about 5 years. The Government is primarily interested in assets and forfeitures.  I don't think this guy ever had a Plan B.

[VKurtB]

On 12/16/2022 at 4:27 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

Bernie Madoff got hit hard (150 years) because he knew at his age, he didn't have much longer to live.  This guy's gonna spill his guts and get a nominal term, for ahem, "cooperation."  Sammy the Bull pleaded to 19 murders and wound up serving about 5 years. The Government is primarily interested in assets and forfeitures.  I don't think this guy ever had a Plan B.

Money was STOLEN from account holders and $40,000,000 was lavished on politicians, 90%+ on those of one political stripe. No, returning those funds to a “charity” will NOT be enough. Sammy needs to do DECADES in prison. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/16/2022 at 4:42 PM, VKurtB said:

You were clearly there, standing and watching. They (SBF and the Ugloid plus whoever) offered Taylor Swift a hundred million dollar FTX endorsement deal, and she turned them down. Not everybody’s as dumb as Tom Brady, apparently. “Hey Damon, do you like apples? Well you’re being sued by FTX investors. How do you like THEM apples?”

It was shot down by FTX insiders as too expensive.  She should have taken the deal but I'm sure she won't be hurting for $$$.

It's not because Taylor Swift did any financial analysis of FTX.  I doubt she can balance her checking account.

[VKurtB]

On 12/16/2022 at 5:02 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It was shot down by FTX insiders as too expensive.  She should have taken the deal but I'm sure she won't be hurting for $$$.

It's not because Taylor Swift did any financial analysis of FTX.  I doubt she can balance her checking account.

She was an exceptionally sharp kid in school. I don’t think she regressed. Her pop was in your line of work. I guess he may still be. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 12/16/2022 at 9:29 AM, World Colonial said:

It's not possible to have a monopoly on nothing, since by definition, anyone can claim that nothing (crypto) is actually something and create another token which is what FTX did with FTT.  But then, that's the kind of stupidity which happens in an unprecedented mania.

His claim is also based upon the assumption that Binance will be able to reduce or eliminate (all other) competition due to their supposed reputational advantage.  That's not going to work either.  If mainstream finance ever decides to get into the "crypto business" (with regulatory approval), Binance will lose their supposed "first mover" and reputational advantage rapidly.

Do you have any idea how long I wondered if Binance was a badly misspelled Beyoncé?

[zadok]

On 12/16/2022 at 6:45 PM, VKurtB said:

Do you have any idea how long I wondered if Binance was a badly misspelled Beyoncé?

...uuuuh until today?...i kept waiting for it to fall off the horse due to being top heavy but alas....

[World Colonial]

On 12/16/2022 at 5:52 PM, VKurtB said:

Money was STOLEN from account holders and $40,000,000 was lavished on politicians, 90%+ on those of one political stripe. No, returning those funds to a “charity” will NOT be enough. Sammy needs to do DECADES in prison. 

My opinion is he will be "hung out to dry" to make it look someone is doing something.

[VKurtB]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:04 PM, World Colonial said:

My opinion is he will be "hung out to dry" to make it look someone is doing something.

Can’t hang high enough or dry enough for my tastes. I’m not an investor in crypto, nor could I ever have been, but everything about crypto violates my deeply held ethical principles. I am descended from horse and buggy Mennonites and Brethren on my mom’s side. She instilled strong moral outrage in me, centered on not cheating people. On her death bed she made me promise to NOT act like my father. The Brethren object to pre-marital sex because it may lead to dancing. 

Edited December 17, 2022 by VKurtB

[World Colonial]

How Sam Bankman-Fried ran $8 billion fraud: Government prosecutors (cnbc.com)

This says it all.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:02 PM, World Colonial said:

How Sam Bankman-Fried ran $8 billion fraud: Government prosecutors (cnbc.com)

This says it all.

We have to hear from Master Trustee Ray as to the specifics.  Kevin O'Leary's focus on the $2 billion used to buy back the Binance stake is critical.  That's REAL CASH (and probably some quality and garbage crypto assets and tokens, too) at a time when they needed liquidity. 

It would be like a bank doing stock buybacks in October 2008.

Edited December 18, 2022 by GoldFinger1969

[World Colonial]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:09 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

We have to hear from Master Trustee Ray as to the specifics.  Kevin O'Leary's focus on the $2 billion used to buy back the Binance stake is critical.  That's REAL CASH (and probably some quality and garbage crypto assets and tokens, too) at a time when they needed liquidity. 

It would be like a bank doing stock buybacks in October 2008.

Though much of it is inflated fake wealth, FTX customers are apparently up to $8B poorer too. 

Like the article states, a lot of people built future plans assuming their "wealth" was there and now it isn't.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:12 PM, World Colonial said:

Though much of it is inflated fake wealth, FTX customers are apparently up to $8B poorer too. 

Like the article states, a lot of people built future plans assuming their "wealth" was there and now it isn't.

You are allowed to borrow customer assets in certain situations (i.e., short-selling borrowing).  This was unregistered and prohibited theft, however.

We know it was more than 1 person doing it.  Just like Madoff couldn't create fake statements alone, these Millenials and Gen-Z'ers helped SBF.

I actually think the money trail will be pretty simple to follow and to explain where it went.

[World Colonial]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:15 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

We know it was more than 1 person doing it.  Just like Madoff couldn't create fake statements alone, these Millenials and Gen-Z'ers helped SBF.

Yes, it took more than one person and no one is going to cover for him now.  He's toast.

On 12/18/2022 at 12:15 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I actually think the money trail will be pretty simple to follow and to explain where it went.

Probably, but this is different than actually getting it back.

With the $2B Binance purportedly has at risk of a clawback, there is also the potential unintended consequence of causing another "run on the bank".

No one on the outside knows how solvent they actually are either.

I'm just waiting for all these "native tokens" to reflect true value, zero.  All crypto is actually nothing and should be worth zero but with "native tokens", it's a self- created "asset" recorded on their balance sheet at a managed "value".

I'd like to know how "solvent" these firms are if these "native tokens" are recorded at zero.

I have the sneaking suspicion all of them might be insolvent.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:12 PM, World Colonial said:

Though much of it is inflated fake wealth, FTX customers are apparently up to $8B poorer too. 

Customers should have known what they had on a daily basis.  It's the equity owners in FTX who had the "inflated fake wealth."  

Crypto assets were down 50-75% from their peaks but whatever they were worth should be in their accounts.  Remember, Kevin O'Leary said his account was WIPED CLEAN which is different than having something go down in price.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:26 PM, World Colonial said:

With the $2B Binance purportedly has at risk of a clawback, there is also the potential unintended consequence of causing another "run on the bank". No one on the outside knows how solvent they actually are either.

I saw the CEO of Binance -- "CZ" -- on CNBC earlier this week.  His response was basically "We're OK" which doesn't exactly inspire confidence.  I'm surprised his hedged and less-than-affirming statements didn't lead to a run on Binance.

Yes, ultimately these things are creations out of thin air.  Even BitCoin with it's mathematical backing of 21 million tokens maximum....I don't know what that means or why it's important.

[World Colonial]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:34 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Crypto assets were down 50-75% from their peaks but whatever they were worth should be in their accounts.  Remember, Kevin O'Leary said his account was WIPED CLEAN which is different than having something go down in price.

The $8B comes directly from the article.  It's presumably account balances even after the 50% to 75% decline.

[World Colonial]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:37 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Yes, ultimately these things are creations out of thin air.  Even BitCoin with it's mathematical backing of 21 million tokens maximum....I don't know what that means or why it's important.

The reason it doesn't make sense is because there is no sense to it.  Crypto is literally nothing which only in a mania would the market assign it any value. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:40 PM, World Colonial said:

The $8B comes directly from the article.  It's presumably account balances even after the 50% to 75% decline.

Ray will have to figure it out.

[World Colonial]

On 12/18/2022 at 4:44 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Ray will have to figure it out.

Their accounting firm was supposedly a global one.  I've never heard of them.

I'm assuming someone is going to go after them for the shortfall too.

[VKurtB]

On 12/18/2022 at 3:44 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Ray will have to figure it out.

Ray has already been heard from in public.