Remember the 1951D MS64FBL from PCGS with reverse mark? 1 1

[Mr.Bill347]

Today I got a response from PCGS. I don’t agree with their assessment at all. If the mark is in the coin, it would go through the bell lines. Also the picture of the full reverse looks different than the cropped reverse regarding that mark. Frankly I think it’s a sharpie mark on the inside of the holder. Should I send it back or not?

Debbie Givens-Gadson (Collectors Universe)  Aug 19, 2022, 09:32 PDT  Hello   Thank you for contacting PCGS!   You can submit the coin back for re-holder. The picture looks like it could be on the coin. If it is on the coin we can not remove it.   Thank you Debbie PCGS Customer Service

Edited August 20, 2022 by Mr.Bill347

[EagleRJO]

Sounds like you are sure it's a mark/crack on the inside of the holder and not on the coin from having the holder in hand. If you send them the holder it sounds like they will just return that if it's an issue with the coin, which they prob can't tell for sure from just pics.  But if it is a mark/crack on the inside of the holder and not a mark/crack on the coin as you suspect then what? You may want to ask to clarify that. 😉

Edited August 19, 2022 by EagleRJO

[GoldFinger1969]

Franklin's have been the subject of a super-intense debate over at CU regarding gradeflation and how coins selling for $500 or so were suddenly worth $12,000 or more. 

[Sandon]

   Based on the photos the "mark" appears to be a streak of toning, formerly known as tarnish, on the coin itself.  This is fairly common on silver coins and could easily result from a thin strip of something chemically reactive, such as paper, lying on the coin for a while. It shouldn't affect the grade at the "64" level and would likely have been taken into consideration in assigning that grade.

      If the streak is on the inside of the holder and not on the coin, you should be able to see this by looking closely at an angle.  If the streak is a scratch or other damage to the coin, you should see an indentation on the coin. 

[Coinbuf]

The way that travels up the O of dollar it looks to be on the coin.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Coinbuf

[RWB]

Hold the slab at an oblique angle. That will let you see the coin surface without looking directly through the front of the holder. Use a good 5x or 10x magnifier to slowly examine the coin surface and the under-side of the slab window. It should not take much to decide if the mark is on the plastic (inside or out) or the coin. Another way is to use a stereo dissecting scope (slab slat this time) and at about 40x slowly shift focus from the coin to the slab window. At some point the line will be sharp and the coin fuzzy if the mark is on the plastic.

(This is all very very basic stuff and it's disappointing to see your ambiguous response from a major authentication company....just an opinion.)

[Mr.Bill347]

On 8/19/2022 at 10:31 PM, Sandon said:

   Based on the photos the "mark" appears to be a streak of toning, formerly known as tarnish, on the coin itself.  This is fairly common on silver coins and could easily result from a thin strip of something chemically reactive, such as paper, lying on the coin for a while. It shouldn't affect the grade at the "64" level and would likely have been taken into consideration in assigning that grade.

      If the streak is on the inside of the holder and not on the coin, you should be able to see this by looking closely at an angle.  If the streak is a scratch or other damage to the coin, you should see an indentation on the coin. 

Sandon

i put the coin under the microscope this morning, the line goes completely through the bell 🔔 and beyond. So I.m starting to think you are right, the toning is probably not likely to indicate a scratch inside the plastic as it would have a clear line, not dark, the crossed lines sort of work against the scratch on the coin idea as well. I guess I’ll just leave it alone, as you stated, they probably took that into account in grading.

thanks for your help!

Edited August 20, 2022 by Mr.Bill347

[RWB]

Yep. The photos show the mark is on the coin, not the plastic.

[EagleRJO]

On 8/19/2022 at 10:31 PM, Sandon said:

... the "mark" appears to be a streak of toning,

That is so strange and counterintuitive to me. How in the world do you get a well-defined linear toning line on a coin like that?

@Mr.Bill347In the other topic on this coin you posted the attached pic and indicated ...

Quote

this is the picture with the shadow, it moves depending on light.

I am super confused now. Is the reply from PCGS making you second guess yourself?

Edited August 20, 2022 by EagleRJO

[Mr.Bill347]

Yes, I figure it may not be worth the trouble to return and hope. Its worth more than I paid for it and the Last Ben Franklin I need for the MS64FBL set.

[EagleRJO]

If you are seeing that line move depending on lighting and movement of the holder, then stick to your guns and ask them if you send it in and it's not on the coin what happens. Don't let them intimidate you just because they are a big grading company.

[But keep in mind what others have said which is it looks like the mark/toning is on the coin, and from looking now more closely at the last few close-up pics you posted that line appears to be incused and it looks like it stops then starts again (or there is a gap) at the bottom of the bell where there is a lip.  So, that may be a scratch or gouge in the coin, and likely would not present like that if it was some kind of mark or scratch on the inside surface of the holder, but we do not have the coin in our hands.]

Edited August 21, 2022 by EagleRJO