World Grading Standards 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

I no longer comment on grading standards because buyers and sellers both regard them as opinions backed by whatever evidence they can summon.

Some devise their own grading scale, as one seller on a thread still in progress did, leaving it up to the prospective buyer to decide its universal validity and acceptability. I personally have a problem transitioning from Sheldon to a seller who shelves it entirely for UNC followed by any number of plus + signs, each of which is supposed to delineate a specific phenomenon.  Apparently, Mint State with 10 theoretical distinctions is inadequate for his purposes. (Unilaterally disqualifying buyers from submitting comments based on the submission of reviews is the height of arrogance, but I digress.)

What I would like to know from knowledgeable readers is what they think of an offering described succinctly, as follows:

French 20-franc gold rooster (or Coq Marianne) 1906 PCGS-MS63 SUP/FDC/ EF/ BU 460.75 USD. 

The problem with this listing should be obvious in the absence of familiarity with a chart helpfully provided, stating: "TABLEAU DES ETATS DE CONVERSION ET LEUR CORRESONDANCES GRADING STANDARDS."

To begin with, mixing certified coins like MS-63, with SUP (Superbe) from AU-55 to MS-62, and FDC (Fleur de Coin from MS-65 to MS-70, then EF (Extremely Fine) and finally to BU (Brilliant Uncirculant) -- 5 grades to describe one coin! -- is not something a serious collector should expect to contend with in dealing with a consortium of coin shops of irreproachable virtue.  A coin, as astutely pointed out by our illustrious member @MarkFeld recently on another thread, if deemed Uncirculated, is Mint State by mutual assent.  And using AU and EF in the same breath is downright insulting.

If I've caught you in a bad mood, dear reader, please feel free to recount your own highly irregular experience here.   🐓 

 

[RWB]

None exist - or rather, many exist but there is no agreement on any.

[World Colonial]

Not sure there are grading standards (of any kind) outside of some European countries and UK/Commonwealth countries.

US collectors through the TPG have imposed the Sheldon scale on world coinage, even when it doesn't make any sense.

Where there are grading standards, I don't recall seeing it by series as with US coinage.  The only foreign guide I own (equivalent to the Red Book) is for South Africa.  No grading standards in there.  Those I have seen in auction catalogs describe the grading scale, but not the application.

In the example from the OP, I'd never consider an MS-63 equivalent to FDC.

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:05 PM, World Colonial said:

Not sure there are grading standards (of any kind) outside of some European countries and UK/Commonwealth countries.

US collectors through the TPG have imposed the Sheldon scale on world coinage, even when it doesn't make any sense.

Where there are grading standards, I don't recall seeing it by series as with US coinage.  The only foreign guide I own (equivalent to the Red Book) is for South Africa.  No grading standards in there.  Those I have seen in auction catalogs describe the grading scale, but not the application.

In the example from the OP, I'd never consider an MS-63 equivalent to FDC.

What got my goat was including EF with FDC. The other three did not help matters any. Think about it. Only one coin, a chart of equivalencies, and five widely disparate grades making a mockery of a coin with questionable attributes. I am really feeling sorry for our brethren who fell for this one...

[World Colonial]

On 9/2/2021 at 3:36 AM, Quintus Arrius said:

What got my goat was including EF with FDC. The other three did not help matters any. Think about it. Only one coin, a chart of equivalencies, and five widely disparate grades making a mockery of a coin with questionable attributes. I am really feeling sorry for our brethren who fell for this one...

I think of a European FDC as MS-66 or better but have never bought a coin graded as one.

A British or Spanish EF is probably a US (mid) AU but not consistent in my experience either.  In another thread, I mentioned a 1607 or 1683 Spanish coin graded by Calico as EBC+ which NGC graded MS-65.  I bought one from Calico which graded MS-63.  I actually thought it might grade higher but it has a small dark spot.  It also looks to have high point wear ("cabinet friction") which US grading seems to ignore.  It's still much nicer than the vast majority of the MS coins for this type I have seen.  Very good strike and very nice color.  Luster might not be quite good enough for a higher grade though.

[Henri Charriere]

@World Colonial:  As a matter of fact, FDC (Fleur de coin) in France, and FDC (Fior di Conio) as used in Italy, cover the range of from MS-65 to MS-70 in the USA.

Your 1683 coin graded EBC+ (Extraordiniamente Bien Conservada+) makes perfect sense as that suffix, used in Spain, tuned out to be an extraordinary turn of luck for you when NGC bestowed a grade of MS-65 on it placing it within the top tier of graded coins worldwide.  (FYI: in Spain that equivalent would be SC (Sin Circular) which I assume you would know.   😉 

[RWB]

On 9/30/2021 at 10:37 PM, Quintus Arrius said:

(FYI: in Spain that equivalent would be SC (Sin Circular) which I assume you would know.

In French the same term is possibly: ménage à trois   ?