EdG_Ohio Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 One of my latest finds is a 1887-P in what I think is in pretty good shape but....<---the but...having been burned on a previous coin that was cleaned by someone and I submitted to NGC for evaluation and came back with the designation of "Cleaned" I'd prefer to get a few opinions 1st before spending any more $$. It doesn't seem to have the telltale signs of "rotational twirls" or scrape marks that I've seen in others although it does have a few scratches on the surfaces but after reading about how professionals and others can clean a coin with various liquids and whatnot how can I, at home, make the call if this was done ? or would have have to be sent in for analysis of the surface metal ? ...a secondary question is, If a coin, not one in images here, has been cleaned by whatever means will it still maintain the toning that was on it ? Images take w/Samsung S8+ Thanks in advance. Ed G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 From the photos the cheek looks thumbed, it may just be the lighting but I'd be concerned that it would be flagged for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdG_Ohio Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, Coinbuf said: From the photos the cheek looks thumbed, it may just be the lighting but I'd be concerned that it would be flagged for that. In the enlarged version of 1st image there are small marks but they don't seem to be "smoothed" over by thumbing but I am still learning the delicacies of looking for particular telltale signs of "fixes". Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirt Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Coinbuf said: From the photos the cheek looks thumbed, it may just be the lighting but I'd be concerned that it would be flagged for that. Is it the dull patch on the cheek over those marks that looks like thumbing? Trying to learn what to look for before I move into MS coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdG_Ohio Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Kirt said: Is it the dull patch on the cheek over those marks that looks like thumbing? Trying to learn what to look for before I move into MS coins. I tried to search for the term "thumbing" here but to no avail. I really don't think thumbing was done on this coin. If you enlarge the image you can see the surface better and all the minute scratches....but this is just my opinion. A quote from elsewhere. "One common variation of nose grease is a process called thumbing, which is used mainly on silver dollars. In this process, the skin oils are rubbed across the desired area, with the thumb acting like a brush, rubbing the oils into the "skin" of the coin. This method is often used to obscure shiny lines or marks on the face of Miss Liberty on Morgan and Peace dollars, and is sometimes so minor that it is nearly undetectable. The breast feathers on Morgan dollars are sometimes "dulled" by this method also, especially when there is a shiny area resulting from contact. When the oils are applied vigorously, the affected areas appear duller, with the luster inhibited. When the coin is tilted under a good light source, the marks or hairlines that have been obscured by the thumbing are visible-though some "thumb" experts are so skillful at this technique that their handiwork is difficult to detect. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 46 minutes ago, Kirt said: Is it the dull patch on the cheek over those marks that looks like thumbing? Trying to learn what to look for before I move into MS coins. I used one of the op's photos and highlighted the area that I see. What I'm noticing is that this area is different in color and texture and is what looks off to me. It may well just be a lighting artifact or other photo anomaly, but this area shows a different color in each of the op's obv photos so that suggests to me that its not just a photo effect. Thumbing was a very common dealer trick to make the cheek look smoother and hide or make less noticeable some marks and hits. Now in hand I might have a very different opinion, its quite possible that the cheek is nice and rounded and that is making it look this way, but just from these photos I question that area. To the op, I'm not trying to drag your coin thru the mud but you asked for opinions as you have already felt the sting of getting a coin bagged as cleaned. So I've highlighted what I see for you to review and hopefully all is good and she grades just fine for you. Kirt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdG_Ohio Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 I understand what you are saying...all good. I couldn't get any decent sunlight for a pic taking that's why the 1st image I'm holding it in my hand trying to get some even light on it for clarity. In the image you chose it does give the appearance of off-coloring, I'll take a few more tomorrow and blow them up, maybe dig out my ole Pentax digital...probably dusty haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 Those are much better pictures than the normal cellphone shots seen on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdG_Ohio Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 7 minutes ago, Just Bob said: Those are much better pictures than the normal cellphone shots seen on here. Thanks, honestly the Samsung 8+ does a fantastic job, I do have a slight background in photography...and yeah...I took about 100 shots haha. These are all edited only by resizing and cropping on my phone. I use a separate app to "resize" images to take a 3-4mb file to 500k-700k size without losing any definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdG_Ohio Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) Ok, I took a few more images while the sun wasn't to overbearing, best to do on a cloudy day...defused light, and from different angles. The thumbing seems nonexistent, at least to my old eyes, but I do notice minute scratches now than before but shouldn't make a huge difference. Edited April 24, 2020 by EdG_Ohio Can't spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
