Blackbird1515 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Can someone help me identify this coin? I would love to find out more about the origins of this coin and if it is an ancient Greek or Roman coin. I believe it is bronze. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) Diameter in mm and weight in grams will be necessary to narrow it down, but the bust appears to be Postumus, Roman emperor from AD 258-276, (according to another source, 259-269) and the reverse looks like Felicitas (Roman goddess of luck?) holding a long caduceus and cornucopia. That should give you enough information to do some searching. Given the proper info and plenty of time, someone who is really good at identifying these, like forum member JKK, could probably narrow it down much more than my quick search did. Edited March 16, 2020 by Just Bob Blackbird1515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird1515 Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Thanks so much for your input! I will start my research with this information along with finding out the mm and weight in grams of the coin. I will begin gathering this information and go from there. Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Just Bob said: Given the proper info and plenty of time, someone who is really good at identifying these, like forum member JKK, could probably narrow it down much more than my quick search did. No need for cussing, Bob. Nice piece. The color is beautiful and much detail survives. Strike centering could be better and make this easier, but we get what we get. I'll look into it if you can give me weight and diameter (g and mm). It shouldn't be too difficult because the radiate (that's the ancients nerd term for the open bear trap on his head; as opposed to diademed, for example) bust is limited to a certain era; plus, most importantly, there are either tails or some other thing behind his head. Those are not common in that shape (usually seen as extensions of a pearl diadem). Bust is cuirassed; not sure if draped, but I think perhaps not. He has a beard, which rules out a) most emperors, and b) all the Augustae (being women; plus, instead of a cuirass and crown, the Augustae typically have flapper cuts that stand out like neon signs). Bob might be right about Felicitas; not sure, but more importantly the reverse type is very clear with plenty of detail remaining. More importantly for ID purposes, the reverse has nothing in the exergue (that's another ancients nerd term for the area below her feet; where is usually found mint mark info on these types). Challenging but doable given that we get at least some obverse and reverse legend, sharp and clear, to go with the odd hair tails and lack of ex. Blackbird1515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird1515 Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Great thank you so much! So, as you can probably tell, I am new with coin collecting and recently got a scale but it has not come in yet. I will weigh the coin as soon as I receive it, but I did measure it and it looks to be 1.7 millimeters. It is also a very thin coin compared to another ancient coin I have. I absolutely love the detail in this coin which is what sparked my interest but it is missing some key points. If another picture may be useful, please let me know! More to come, and thank you again! 9 hours ago, JKK said: No need for cussing, Bob. Nice piece. The color is beautiful and much detail survives. Strike centering could be better and make this easier, but we get what we get. I'll look into it if you can give me weight and diameter (g and mm). It shouldn't be too difficult because the radiate (that's the ancients nerd term for the open bear trap on his head; as opposed to diademed, for example) bust is limited to a certain era; plus, most importantly, there are either tails or some other thing behind his head. Those are not common in that shape (usually seen as extensions of a pearl diadem). Bust is cuirassed; not sure if draped, but I think perhaps not. He has a beard, which rules out a) most emperors, and b) all the Augustae (being women; plus, instead of a cuirass and crown, the Augustae typically have flapper cuts that stand out like neon signs). Bob might be right about Felicitas; not sure, but more importantly the reverse type is very clear with plenty of detail remaining. More importantly for ID purposes, the reverse has nothing in the exergue (that's another ancients nerd term for the area below her feet; where is usually found mint mark info on these types). Challenging but doable given that we get at least some obverse and reverse legend, sharp and clear, to go with the odd hair tails and lack of ex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 The existing pics are good enough. Pretty sure you mean 17 mm, which is enough to guide me to the denomination. Give me a bit to do some research. Don't get your hopes into the clouds on value--it's probably an antoninianus, a very common billon (minimally precious) denomination of the 200s CE, and most issues of emperors who minted a lot of coins sell for $10-12 in this denomination. Welcome to ancient numismatics, a field where the learning is inexhaustible. Blackbird1515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird1515 Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, JKK said: The existing pics are good enough. Pretty sure you mean 17 mm, which is enough to guide me to the denomination. Give me a bit to do some research. Don't get your hopes into the clouds on value--it's probably an antoninianus, a very common billon (minimally precious) denomination of the 200s CE, and most issues of emperors who minted a lot of coins sell for $10-12 in this denomination. Welcome to ancient numismatics, a field where the learning is inexhaustible. Yes that is what I meant, 17 mm! Okay great thank you! I figured, but value the honesty. To me, there is also value in having a piece of history (no matter how small) itself and learning about this coin means just as much to me 😊 I really appreciate your time on this and look forward to any further information you may find! This field is far from simple, but it is also full of wonders and is extremely fascinating. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, Blackbird1515 said: Yes that is what I meant, 17 mm! Okay great thank you! I figured, but value the honesty. To me, there is also value in having a piece of history (no matter how small) itself and learning about this coin means just as much to me 😊 I really appreciate your time on this and look forward to any further information you may find! This field is far from simple, but it is also full of wonders and is extremely fascinating. Thank you! You're very welcome. In the meantime, one great online resource is Wildwinds. If Bob's right--and he usually is, plus my preliminary investigations suggest that his Postumus idea might be on target--you'd look them up at this page. Do note that the page, as linked, is the version of the Postumus page set to show the images with the entries. I feel fairly confident this is an ant (as we call the antoninianus), so if you can find an ant under Postumus that seems to resemble this one closely, you might get there before I do. Feel free to link one you consider likely, and I'll be glad to look at it. As far as the value of a piece of history, well, to me that's one of the main drivers of coin collecting, so I share that viewpoint (and would even if ancient western civilizations hadn't been my college major). For your general fund of knowledge: later Roman imperial coinage is mostly defined by size + metal = denomination, but individual issues are targeted by BORTE: bust, obverse legend, reverse legend, (reverse) type, and exergue. So a (conjectural but similar to yours) coin might be described as: Postumus AE (bronze/copper usually) antoninianus, radiate draped cuirassed bust right, DN POSTVMVS PF AVG, VICTORIA AVG, Victoria standing left with doodad in left hand and doohickey in right hand, nothing in exergue. To identify the issue, we identify the pictured emperor and as many of those elements as we can discern, then infer the rest. For example, if we know of 150 ant issues under Postumus, for your coin, we can rule out any where he's facing left, or where it's just the head but no bust, or where it's not radiate. At some point, that narrows the bust down to two or three. If you find that in fact his ants only ever had one of those possible busts, bang: you've got it, presuming we're right about Postumus. Now you have the B element. You then start to look at possibilities that match the B element (ignoring the rest as irrelevant), and see which legends that occurred with that B element might match this coin. Probably that will get you O and R. Since type tends to be associated with reverse legend, R probably gets you T. And E is simple: it's empty. Any Postumus ant that has anything whatsoever in exergue isn't your coin. If you decide you absolutely dig this, I'll suggest an excellent reference you can get hold of for about 35-40 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKK Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 My results are inconclusive, so I will provide you with what I have been able to infer/deduce. That's how this often works, someone does what they know, then passes it on. This coin very likely depicts Postumus (260-269 CE), the authority behind the majority of extant breakaway Gallic republic coins. That area is a mess. I have a barbarous radiate of Tetricus where the diemaker evidently was not literate. In this area, previously undocumented issues are not uncommon and the minting workmanship was often a cloaca maxima. That makes the whole thing clear as mud. It is likely an ant, but could also be a so-called double sestertius. I believe the BORTE to be: B: radiate, draped, cuirassed bust right (might not be draped) O: IMP ???_______AVG (number of letters not evident) R: FELICITAS AVGG (inferred partly from solid guess on type) T: Felicitas standing left w/caduceus and cournocopia (a solid guess; this reverse type is not that common) E: (nada), mint unknown; my references say most were at Colonia Agrippinensis (now Köln, I think), Trier, and Lugdunum I am not sure the type is documented, but I hope that helps you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 He's good, no doubt about it. (I am referring to JKK, not Postumus. That guy was supposedly killed by his own men. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
