Star grades... Rare ? Common ? Over awarded ? Not given enough ?

[TonerGuy]

Are * grades too common ? Are they not granted enough ? Are they just a silly gimmick ? What are your thoughts on NGC's * grades ?

 

I can really only talk about Peace * grades since I have been tracking them for the past several years. Out of more than 680,000 Peace $ graded only 203 have been given a *

 

In the past 2-3 years only 10 have been given a * and none have been handed out in the past 8 months.

 

I have no idea if a * rate of .0003 is normal for most series but it seems a bit low to me.

 

Do you pay more for * ? Does it even matter to you ? Does a * increase value ?

 

My curious mind wants to know....

[Afterword]

I may pay more for a coin if I find it particularly attractive, but not because it has a star on the label.

[asdfgh]

I can not speak for peace dollars as I have not looked at star grades for them. However I usually try to buy a Cameo or UltraCameo. I feel the star is given out when the coin is Cameo on only one side.

Of course you can get a *Cameo. They are definately rare. In some cases a * has more registry points than a Cameo of the same grade. You will also see the star given out for exceptional toning as it represents exceptional eye appeal. I myself would not pay a premimun for a star. I would just use the money to buy a higher grade.

[brg5658]

Are * grades too common ? Are they not granted enough ? Are they just a silly gimmick ? What are your thoughts on NGC's * grades ?

 

I can really only talk about Peace * grades since I have been tracking them for the past several years. Out of more than 680,000 Peace $ graded only 203 have been given a *

 

Ok, so 203 / 680000 = 0.0003

 

 

 

In the past 2-3 years only 10 have been given a * and none have been handed out in the past 8 months.

 

What's the denominator for these 10? Ten out of how many graded?

 

And, what's the denominator for the "none" in the past 8 months? How many were graded in that timeframe?

 

It's hard to know if things are changing or pretty steady without knowing the corresponding denominators that go along with the 10 and zero numerators.

 

 

I have no idea if a * rate of .0003 is normal for most series but it seems a bit low to me.

 

Do you pay more for * ? Does it even matter to you ? Does a * increase value ?

 

My curious mind wants to know....

 

Answering your questions in order:

 

1) It depends. 2) It depends. 3) It depends.

 

[Coinbuf]

* Grades like + grades are marketing/registry gimicks to pump up interest and keep collectors chasing top pops. That does not make them valueless but in the overall scheme of things the coin should be able to speak for itself. I do not care about these myself (I do have one + coin and one * coin) nor do I follow the pops for these things. But it seems to me that the * is given out more often for color than any other reason. So it stands to reason that a series like Peace dollars that is not well known for colorfull examples would have fewer * graded coins; percentage wise; than say Morgans where colorfull coins are in abundance. Again just guessing but I would think that + grades are more valued in the market than * grades.

[brg5658]

Again just guessing but I would think that + grades are more valued in the market than * grades.

 

I'd say the opposite. Star coins usually have high eye appeal, and garner higher prices (probably with or without the star on the label).

 

Plus coins rarely garner higher prices unless no coins or very few coins exist in the next grade higher (e.g., an MS67+ coin when no MS68 coins exist). An MS64+ graded Morgan when there are hundreds or thousands of MS65 graded coins of that type doesn't mean anything to most buyers (myself included).

[Nutmeg Coin]

I have gotten maybe two in many hundreds of coins. This one recently, maybe it was worth more: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1880-S-1-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-NGC-MS64-/231671941782?rd=1

 

A very useful grade addition IMO. Pluses are over-conferred by PCGS.

[jom]

Are * grades too common ?

 

Probably not as I don't see it that often. "Most" of the time * coins seem to have some kind of eye appeal. On occasion I don't get it. However, I would not call it a "grade".

 

Are they not granted enough ?

 

That's hard to say.

 

Are they just a silly gimmick ?

 

I don't know.

 

What are your thoughts on NGC's * grades ?

 

I don't care either way.

 

Also, I don't collect Peace dollars as I don't care for the design. However, the reason for the lack of * may be that most of the time the coins look crappy....I don't know. There are far more eye appealing Morgan dollars that is for sure.

 

jom

[BillJones]

I've so little to do with any of them, I have not opinion.

 

I have one PCGS with a "+" and that coin is just okay for the grade. Given that they called it PR-66+, it's nothing special for that number. Why the "+"? Search me.

[coinman_23885]

It truly depends on the coin. There are many coins where the star designation is worth a premium (because of the quality and eye appeal of the coin and not necessarily the designation) such as just miss pre-1950 cameos, PL/DPL non Morgan coins, and toners. Other coins, I could care less about and the star designation doesn't add much, like post 1955 just miss cameos that trade at little if any premium at all.

[brg5658]

It truly depends on the coin. There are many coins where the star designation is worth a premium (because of the quality and eye appeal of the coin and not necessarily the designation) such as just miss pre-1950 cameos, PL/DPL non Morgan coins, and toners. Other coins, I could care less about and the star designation doesn't add much, like post 1955 just miss cameos that trade at little if any premium at all.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

It truly depends on the coin. There are many coins where the star designation is worth a premium (because of the quality and eye appeal of the coin and not necessarily the designation) such as just miss pre-1950 cameos, PL/DPL non Morgan coins, and toners. Other coins, I could care less about and the star designation doesn't add much, like post 1955 just miss cameos that trade at little if any premium at all.

 

 

 

I care a very trivial amount, but only if I purchased the coin for resale and the star could serve as a marketing hook. So I could care less for resale value and couldn't care less for my personal collection/tastes.

[MarkFeld]

Stars are designations, not grades.

[RWB]

Is this about the company that sticks a person's name on a star then issues and expensive certificate?

 

Humph: Betelgeuse oh scale-infested Ras Alhague!

 

[Beckes]

 

Star grades are tougher than ever to get on toners these days. I am glad I held on to my 20 or so Morgan toner Star designations.

[TonerGuy]

This is interesting... it seems as though the census is that many dont really care about the * designation (thank you Mr. Feld) but why then does NGC keep it around as a designation and not discard it as they did with W and Ts and multi-coin holders ?

 

There must be a market for this designation otherwise I doubt the good folks at NGC would waste their time with adding them to the label as well as having a separate tab in the census for *s...

 

Again I can only speak to Peace * toners - which I can definitively say command a higher premium then non * designated Peace $ toners. Ive seen the same coin get a * and the asking price doubles... since I cannot possibly know what all of the private sale prices are I would only be guessing to say that there is a bump. But I can certainly say at auction there is an increase.

 

Everyone talks about the CAC bump but no one ever mentions the * designation bump... hmmmm.

[Davids5104]

in my 1946-1964 roosevelts I have 3 star designated coins and 4 MS67+. I have posted on here looking for MS67+ roosies because it is the highest grade I can afford. Admittedly, i have yet to spend time analyzing the MS67 vs 67+ to see the difference, which i presume one was award plus because it was graded on Tuesday when Jimmy was there and the other Friday when James got in... For me I can not afford a MS68 silver roosevelt dime, so the 67+ is the best grade i can do. I can also afford the MS67FT for most. Star designated roosies are universally more expensive than a FT of the same year and I do not know how I feel about that.

 

I have 3 plus graded PCGS and 1 Plus graded NGC. All 3 stars are from NGC.

 

Star grades are nice to say this is a nice specimen at a given grade but it hurts me personally because of the lack of price guidance. I know a coin is worth what someone is willing to pay but if a fair market value could be derived I would love it.

 

My best coin is a 1964 FT STAR roosevelt dime. I purchased for 291 dollars and thought WOW, i paid a lot. balanced with this coin below.... around for quite a while i might add

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1946-S-ROOSEVELT-DIME-NGC-MS66-FT-MONSTER-RARE-1-1-PLUS-STAR-FULL-TORCH-GEM-/252099483548?hash=item3ab24cd79c

 

 

[david3142]

I will confess to liking the star designation. I have even submitted a couple of coins for designation review. There are three factors that contribute to my enjoyment:

 

1) I suspect the coin will sell for more whenever I decide to do so.

2) NGC acknowledging the superior eye appeal is like a CAC sticker of approval. It makes me feel better about the coin.

3) Registry points

[Raisethis2]

Look at it like this..........

 

You can have an 1880 S Morgan in MS 65 or,,,,,,,,,,

 

You can have an 1880 S Morgan in MS 65 Star. Which of the 2 is going to have greater eye appeal?

 

THAT's why there's a Star designation.

[physics-fan3.14]

Look at it like this..........

 

You can have an 1880 S Morgan in MS 65 or,,,,,,,,,,

 

You can have an 1880 S Morgan in MS 65 Star. Which of the 2 is going to have greater eye appeal?

 

THAT's why there's a Star designation.

 

You place too much faith in NGC. I've seen plenty of Stars that were drool-worthy.... and I've seen plenty of "Stars" that were ugly dogs. I've seen plenty of non-Stars that were drooly-worthy... and I've seen plenty of non-Stars that were ugly dogs.

 

When it comes down to it, buy the coin and not the plastic. And that's really all I have to say about that.

[Nutmeg Coin]

PL coins definitely stand out, they look more dimensional. Coins that are hard to sell; flat looking, unattractive toning, weak eye appeal are a major problem for dealers. Star coins usually have exceptional toning, contrast or some other feature that is not unduly countered by problems, but it is ultimate subjective. http://i.imgur.com/9LiYzJp.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hnHF32H.jpg

[jerseycat10]

I own this NGC Star graded Peace Dollar:

 

Still trying to determine why it deserves a star. I keep it for amusement purposes.

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

Lots of eye appeal; nice photography....

[RWB]

Well...the 1922 is poorly detailed and to me, unappealing. But it has a clean cheek and neck.

[AHFreak]

In the area I mainly deal in, "STAR" grades play a significant role. Specifically 1950-1970 Proof coinage, I feel in alot of ways the star grade is similar to the cameo and ultra cameo designation. Like Jason said, sometimes star coins are blah, no biggie, other times star coins will make your eye balls fall out of your head... but again as he mentioned many coins that don't have stars will make your eye balls do the same thing... so it's not an either or.

 

I will also say, that more often than not, in my area of coins, a star is going to equate to much more than a 10-20% premium above regular value of said grade no star... I have sold many many star coins, and I usually list these coins at .99 star, no reserve, to let the market decide. I can't even count all the times I've had a star coin sell for multiples of non starred counterpart.

One that really stands out in my mind was a 1964 Kennedy in PF68*. The coin had a super B&W obverse, as heavily frosted as you will ever see. But the reverse didn't have a bit of contrast, completely monochromatic. Well a 64 Ken in 68 is a 45 dollar coin, give or take. A 68cameo is usually 105-115, and when I sold this one in particular, there we're countless 68 cameo's available as buy it nows. It's not rocket science to assume that a 68* couldn't be worth more than a 68 cameo right? Well this one in particular sold for over 300 bucks. .. If I remember right it was like 365 or something like that. Another example of when stars make a significant difference in value would be Accent Hair Kens. An AH in 67Cam is 450 or so... a 67UltraCam is 4000 or so.. the couple 67Cameo*'s I've seen sold in the 2K range, to me, the star on that coin is very valuable. Like all coins, some stars are worth more than others. . Just like cameo/Ultra Cameo's. I can't comment on if their instances of assigning stars has changed but I don't feel it has decreased at all lately. I had like 6 or 7 out of 9 AH's get stars on a submission recently.

 

That's my small slice of STAR coin insight.

[MarkFeld]

This is interesting... it seems as though the census is that many dont really care about the * designation (thank you Mr. Feld) but why then does NGC keep it around as a designation and not discard it as they did with W and Ts and multi-coin holders ?

 

There must be a market for this designation otherwise I doubt the good folks at NGC would waste their time with adding them to the label as well as having a separate tab in the census for *s...

 

Again I can only speak to Peace * toners - which I can definitively say command a higher premium then non * designated Peace $ toners. Ive seen the same coin get a * and the asking price doubles... since I cannot possibly know what all of the private sale prices are I would only be guessing to say that there is a bump. But I can certainly say at auction there is an increase.

 

Everyone talks about the CAC bump but no one ever mentions the * designation bump... hmmmm.

 

I think plenty of buyers do care about the star designation - some of them admit it and others don't. And I would bet that in general, star coins sell more easily and/or at higher prices than non-star coins do. NGC has no reason to do away with the designation.

 

 

[jpcienkus]

I love looking for star graded coins because they usually have exceptional eye appeal. And, I'm willing to pay extra for eye appeal.

 

Do I like every "*" coin I see, nope, but I do like the majority of them.

[Hard Times]

I think this is my only *, and the eye appeal is breathtaking, even tho it might really be a 55 for wear, CAC still liked it, and in hand you can see why, first look is 'WOW'. My images don't do justice.

 

Best, HT

 

[Afterword]

I only own one star designated coin. I purchased the coin because I found it to be attractive. I think of the star designation as a bonus.

 

Although it did not seem to make a difference in the price I paid, it may very well do so when it comes time to sell it.

[Hard Times]

FWIW, in the bust dime series, 1796-1837, NGC have 6215 in their census. 23 are prooflike, 20 have been given a star. That is a rate of 0.3% in this series. Mine is the only 1836 with star designation, so it seems getting a star is pretty rare.

 

Best, HT