For me, CAC is becoming a detriment to the hobby.

[dimefreak]

I haven't read this entire thread! However I would like to reply to Mr Mcknowitall.

 

Downside of CAC. I used to use my knowledge and experience to obtain quality coins that less experienced did not notice or realize. Now CAC makes it easy for any single person to narrow in on quality coins. I can tell my 7 year old son to look for coins with a sticker and I bet he would find them. So the time and money spent on educating myself is now replaced by a sticker. This is why I Dont like CAC stickers and quite frankly if you want to spin my response in a different direction I Dont give a :-)

 

Lastly for everybody reading. The coin market is so darn corrupt that I can't stand it. I've spent more money on Miley Cyrus collectibles this year than coins. When I buy coins its typically a raw coin anymore. This BS of dealers working for graders and upgrades galore is trash! Color coins get 1,000,000 point bump on a 70 point scale. Some top pop silver eagles fetch almost $100k. So on and so on! I have few boxes still in my holdings in case these crooks destroy themselves and I can enjoy the hobby again, but until then I'll happily watch here and enjoy your new purchases!

 

Thank you for the response. There may have been some value to you in reading the entire Thread. It would have helped you construct a response that would address the detriment caused to the hobby, instead of any harm to you personally.

 

I am sorry that you feel you have competition now, and that you feel it helps other collectors/hobbyists in identifying quality coins that you had been using your knowledge and experience to identify, that the less experienced collector/hobbyist didn't notice or realize. It appears you were economically impacted by capitalism. I think that is the intent of your Post, and it appears your 2nd thought is that the coin market is corrupt, and apparently the Miley Cyrus collectibles market isn't. I did not know that, and indeed I didn't know there was a Miley Cyrus collectibles market, so I do thank you for sharing this knowledge.

 

I wished you would throw the group a bone and tell them who you really are ;-)

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I haven't read this entire thread! However I would like to reply to Mr Mcknowitall.

 

Downside of CAC. I used to use my knowledge and experience to obtain quality coins that less experienced did not notice or realize. Now CAC makes it easy for any single person to narrow in on quality coins. I can tell my 7 year old son to look for coins with a sticker and I bet he would find them. So the time and money spent on educating myself is now replaced by a sticker. This is why I Dont like CAC stickers and quite frankly if you want to spin my response in a different direction I Dont give a :-)

 

Lastly for everybody reading. The coin market is so darn corrupt that I can't stand it. I've spent more money on Miley Cyrus collectibles this year than coins. When I buy coins its typically a raw coin anymore. This BS of dealers working for graders and upgrades galore is trash! Color coins get 1,000,000 point bump on a 70 point scale. Some top pop silver eagles fetch almost $100k. So on and so on! I have few boxes still in my holdings in case these crooks destroy themselves and I can enjoy the hobby again, but until then I'll happily watch here and enjoy your new purchases!

 

Thank you for the response. There may have been some value to you in reading the entire Thread. It would have helped you construct a response that would address the detriment caused to the hobby, instead of any harm to you personally.

 

I am sorry that you feel you have competition now, and that you feel it helps other collectors/hobbyists in identifying quality coins that you had been using your knowledge and experience to identify, that the less experienced collector/hobbyist didn't notice or realize. It appears you were economically impacted by capitalism. I think that is the intent of your Post, and it appears your 2nd thought is that the coin market is corrupt, and apparently the Miley Cyrus collectibles market isn't. I did not know that, and indeed I didn't know there was a Miley Cyrus collectibles market, so I do thank you for sharing this knowledge.

 

I wished you would throw the group a bone and tell them who you really are ;-)

 

 

You have been a member since 2010?

 

You don't remember the Thread about a month ago when you posted the same type of somewhat snide and discourteous innuendos and questions, and received a courteous reply to all your questions? We all have memory lapses, but this seems a little more severe than normally experienced by people.

 

I understand your sentiments. You will survive, I am sure.

[dimefreak]

I haven't read this entire thread! However I would like to reply to Mr Mcknowitall.

 

Downside of CAC. I used to use my knowledge and experience to obtain quality coins that less experienced did not notice or realize. Now CAC makes it easy for any single person to narrow in on quality coins. I can tell my 7 year old son to look for coins with a sticker and I bet he would find them. So the time and money spent on educating myself is now replaced by a sticker. This is why I Dont like CAC stickers and quite frankly if you want to spin my response in a different direction I Dont give a :-)

 

Lastly for everybody reading. The coin market is so darn corrupt that I can't stand it. I've spent more money on Miley Cyrus collectibles this year than coins. When I buy coins its typically a raw coin anymore. This BS of dealers working for graders and upgrades galore is trash! Color coins get 1,000,000 point bump on a 70 point scale. Some top pop silver eagles fetch almost $100k. So on and so on! I have few boxes still in my holdings in case these crooks destroy themselves and I can enjoy the hobby again, but until then I'll happily watch here and enjoy your new purchases!

 

Thank you for the response. There may have been some value to you in reading the entire Thread. It would have helped you construct a response that would address the detriment caused to the hobby, instead of any harm to you personally.

 

I am sorry that you feel you have competition now, and that you feel it helps other collectors/hobbyists in identifying quality coins that you had been using your knowledge and experience to identify, that the less experienced collector/hobbyist didn't notice or realize. It appears you were economically impacted by capitalism. I think that is the intent of your Post, and it appears your 2nd thought is that the coin market is corrupt, and apparently the Miley Cyrus collectibles market isn't. I did not know that, and indeed I didn't know there was a Miley Cyrus collectibles market, so I do thank you for sharing this knowledge.

 

I wished you would throw the group a bone and tell them who you really are ;-)

 

 

You have been a member since 2010?

 

You don't remember the Thread about a month ago when you posted the same type of somewhat snide and discourteous innuendos and questions, and received a courteous reply to all your questions? We all have memory lapses, but this seems a little more severe than normally experienced by people.

 

I understand your sentiments. You will survive, I am sure.

 

I think I have shown many times before that I don't give a hoot what remarks I receive! I don't like the BS so I'm vocal about it! Of course, I am weary of those that will sue to protect there firm, establishment, or company. But you wouldn't know anything about suing random people for speaking there mind ;-)

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

I haven't read this entire thread! However I would like to reply to Mr Mcknowitall.

 

Downside of CAC. I used to use my knowledge and experience to obtain quality coins that less experienced did not notice or realize. Now CAC makes it easy for any single person to narrow in on quality coins. I can tell my 7 year old son to look for coins with a sticker and I bet he would find them. So the time and money spent on educating myself is now replaced by a sticker. This is why I Dont like CAC stickers and quite frankly if you want to spin my response in a different direction I Dont give a :-)

 

Lastly for everybody reading. The coin market is so darn corrupt that I can't stand it. I've spent more money on Miley Cyrus collectibles this year than coins. When I buy coins its typically a raw coin anymore. This BS of dealers working for graders and upgrades galore is trash! Color coins get 1,000,000 point bump on a 70 point scale. Some top pop silver eagles fetch almost $100k. So on and so on! I have few boxes still in my holdings in case these crooks destroy themselves and I can enjoy the hobby again, but until then I'll happily watch here and enjoy your new purchases!

 

Thank you for the response. There may have been some value to you in reading the entire Thread. It would have helped you construct a response that would address the detriment caused to the hobby, instead of any harm to you personally.

 

I am sorry that you feel you have competition now, and that you feel it helps other collectors/hobbyists in identifying quality coins that you had been using your knowledge and experience to identify, that the less experienced collector/hobbyist didn't notice or realize. It appears you were economically impacted by capitalism. I think that is the intent of your Post, and it appears your 2nd thought is that the coin market is corrupt, and apparently the Miley Cyrus collectibles market isn't. I did not know that, and indeed I didn't know there was a Miley Cyrus collectibles market, so I do thank you for sharing this knowledge.

 

I wished you would throw the group a bone and tell them who you really are ;-)

 

 

You have been a member since 2010?

 

You don't remember the Thread about a month ago when you posted the same type of somewhat snide and discourteous innuendos and questions, and received a courteous reply to all your questions? We all have memory lapses, but this seems a little more severe than normally experienced by people.

 

I understand your sentiments. You will survive, I am sure.

 

I think I have shown many times before that I don't give a hoot what remarks I receive! I don't like the BS so I'm vocal about it! Of course, I am weary of those that will sue to protect there firm, establishment, or company. But you wouldn't know anything about suing random people for speaking there mind ;-)

 

With sincerity, your Post convinces me that I believe you have me confused with someone else, or you are intertwining me and someone else. This would explain the Posts you always randomly seem to address to me.

 

I have no idea, in even the slightest vein, what your 2nd and 3rd sentence is referring to. I wish I could help you, but other than being an outlet for your emotional relief, I don't know anything else I could accomplish on your behalf.

[coinman1794]

As I thought things over last night and then read the pro CAC commentary this week's "Coin Dealer Newsletter" I've started to think that CAC is becoming a detriment to the hobby, least for me.

 

Years ago I spent a few thousand dollars to get all of the major and second tier coins that were in my collection certified. It was necessary because the market had moved to the point where raw coins were going to be numismatic dodo birds no matter how nice or rare they were.

 

Over the next several years I bought certified coins almost exclusively for my collection. I did that because getting raw coins certified is a tough business for a collector. As dealer I learned that you could do well by getting coins certified because when you sent in a lot of coins, you quite often got some grades on the high side that you didn't figure to get. You also got some lower than expected grades and body bags, but overall, the certification game is a winner if you are a dealer who knows how to grade coins and buy them right.

 

For the collector it's a different story. Collectors usually have far fewer coins, and if one of their important items comes back with a lower than expected grade, or worse yet a "details" grade, it's often hard for them to recover financially. That's why I recommend that collectors should buy coins in the holders they want in the first place.

 

Now along comes CAC, and they have changed the game. Now having your coins certified is not enough. Now they must the have the CAC seal of approval, and furthermore, for a large number of CAC adherents, those coins MUST be graded by PCGS as well. Everything else, as one poster ATS put it, is "raw."

 

So now to hold the value of your collection you have send all of your nice coins to CAC. In my case that will involve an expenditure of many thousands of dollars because of the shipping and insurance charges. That's money that could be used to buy more coins and books, where much of the fun for this hobby is for me. It money that I could use to travel and broaden my experiences. But to stay in the game that money ends up spent at the post office and the CAC grading house.

 

The whole thing gets depressing, and it should make anyone who might want to get into this hobby, especially for investment, think twice. You could build a great collection only to find that you must send you coins to one man to have them accepted so that they can hold their value. Today it is CAC; tomorrow it might be something else.

 

I'm not saying negative things about John Albanese. I have never met the man personally. I have only talked to him over the phone. He seems like an honest, unassuming individual who means no one any harm, but my main concern and criticism is that no one man should be able to exert that much power over a market. When one man does, it makes me wonder if I really want to have that much money in that market.

 

So that's where I am. I love my coins, and I'd like to keep collecting, but given the current state of market with so few people in control of it, how far am I willing to go?

 

One solution is simply move away from U.S. coins and let the market makers do their thing. Their loud, distasteful rhetoric, combined with the personal attacks from the people here and ATS, is ruining the hobby for me. I don't have much interest in what they are selling and never did have much interest it. Coins in ultra high grades, with marginal overall rarity and limited historical appeal have never done much for me. But what I fear is that these people will ruin the rest market for those of us who don't want to play their game, and that's sad; but it seems like that the direction we in which we are heading.

 

You are experiencing a type of market correction. The market was in need of a counterbalance because so many inferior coins existed in PCGS/NGC slabs. That's the niche CAC filled, and NGC and PCGS followed suit with Plus grading, which is in some ways an attempt to refine the standards without adding numbers to the scale. CAC was the biggest change to the market since grading services emerged. Its bound to have created some ripples. It serves a real purpose (any CAC anterior motives aside), and I don't think it is a detriment to the hobby, personally.

[rynegold-migration]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz never mind.

[coinman_23885]

I think we are experiencing over correction personally.

[Houston Investor]

I don't see CAC as a significant factor in the coin market except for big ticket coins mainly collected by the wealthy. A very small percentage of the certified coins on ebay are CAC coins.

 

Any coin CAC or not is subject to the buyers approval in terms of eye appeal and where it falls in the grade range.

 

The numismatic marketplace is much more than just TPG coins - USM products, currency, collector coins, bullion. Look at the sales volume the USM does.