At what point does toning become environmental damage ?

[michael]

Re: At what point does toning become environmental damage ?

 

i'll know it instantly when you show me a speficic holdered coin in hand sight seen.................... but I cant tell you what to look for in words

 

now there are exceptions to my above rule (well sort of) like when I see a slabbed 18th century large cent/colonial copper that is in a problem free graded holder that is sliently net graded because it has mirco-porosity evenly covering 100% of both sides

but

is actually quite eye appealing because of recoloring

then this environmental damage and recoloring (or not) I might be able to live with as the coin appears to the unknowledgeable as under-graded which it is

 

but

because of again net grading (mystery grading) by the slab factories

and sorry to say I see this more often than not with pre 1807 large cents and colonial coppers...............................

 

then I regain my senses and pass but from first glance it does look really "good"

 

 

 

 

[L1ncolnF4n]

 

Z is environmental damage. Obviously this isn't set in stone, but that's a good idea.

[brg5658]

IMO that coin is hideous. Whether it graded out problem free or not, I would NOT pay over melt for such a ruined coin. Again, just my opinion.

[orifdoc]

From the perspective of a chemist or engineer, all toning is environmental damage.

 

From a hobbyist perspective, I'd say it's when the corrosion has progressed to the point that the metallic surfaces of the coin are degraded enough to remove flow lines and/or the texture imparted by the die. This will cause loss of luster and such a coin will be dull and lifeless if dipped. On some coins it's quite obvious that fantastic luster lurks behind a relatively thin layer of dark toning. Dip that puppy and it's possible that a nice, lustrous, original-looking coin will be uncovered...... sometimes.

 

Distinguishing the two from a photo is pretty hard. You really need a good light source and a chance to twirl it around under the light.

 

Now, with regards to that particular Peace dollar. Blech. Doesn't matter if it's ED, NT, or AT, or WKRP in Cincinnati. It's not one that would be welcome in my collection.

[Kurtdog]

From the perspective of a chemist or engineer, all toning is environmental damage.

 

From a hobbyist perspective, I'd say it's when the corrosion has progressed to the point that the metallic surfaces of the coin are degraded enough to remove flow lines and/or the texture imparted by the die. This will cause loss of luster and such a coin will be dull and lifeless if dipped. On some coins it's quite obvious that fantastic luster lurks behind a relatively thin layer of dark toning. Dip that puppy and it's possible that a nice, lustrous, original-looking coin will be uncovered...... sometimes.

 

Distinguishing the two from a photo is pretty hard. You really need a good light source and a chance to twirl it around under the light.

 

Now, with regards to that particular Peace dollar. Blech. Doesn't matter if it's ED, NT, or AT, or WKRP in Cincinnati. It's not one that would be welcome in my collection.

Very interesting perspectives, I think that's right, good going.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Here was a coin that some thought was ED:

 

http://i.imgur.com/lHG2qeG.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/LTeq0V6.jpg

 

Would NGC and CAC have given the thumbs up? I didn't bother, as a dipped lustrous coin it was easier to sell.

 

Same thing was true of this coin, rejected as a toned coin but graded fine once conserved:

 

http://i.imgur.com/GafQ6.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/cynB0.jpg

 

What about the after photos ?? How well were these conserved ?

 

Here was the Bust H10c:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8161825&fpart=1