U.S. Philippine PCGS Crossovers by JAA USA/Philippines Collection

[CSJournals-migration]

My experience with PCGS crossovers has been very different than the earlier posts on this topic. Over the past few years I have submitted many PCGS graded U.S. Philippine Proof coins to NGC for crossover and all but one have crossed at the PCGS grade or higher.

 

NGC treats U.S. Philippine coins in a somewhat schizophrenic manner in that are considered U.S. Coins in the NGC Registry and the NGC Population Reports but are graded by the NGC World Coin Grading Staff.

 

I am not sure why my experience is so different than the other reports. Perhaps the PCGS and NGC standards are more in line on U.S. Philippines coins than they are for World Coins.

 

I know that many collectors and dealers consider PCGS to have a somewhat higher grading standard for U.S. Philippine coins than NGC. Personally I feel that the PCGS and NGC grading standards, at least for U.S. Philippine coins, are at the same level. That would seem to bear out my experience that PCGS coins that are solid for their grade have no problem in crossing over to NGC.

 

The attached picture is a 1908 Twenty Centavos, NGC PF64 that was originally in a PCGS PR63 holder. The coin crossed over as NGC PF63. It was then submitted to NGC for regarding at which time the grade was upgraded to NGC PF64.

 

See more journals by JAA USA/Philippines Collection

[coin928]

I too have had good luck with crossing PCGS to NGC. However, my sample size consists of a single US/Philippine coin and it made a stop at NCS along the way. It was worth the effort though since it got bumped up two grade levels.

 

In general though I would not attempt crossing PCGS to NGC unless I really felt strongly that it would upgrade. I would also take it to a show to get a second, third or even fourth opinion as backup.

 

As an aside, even the most highly respected experts can be wrong, which is why a consensus of opinions is preferable. I recently sent several coins to NCS, one of which had already been graded by NGC as MS62. One of my chosen experts at a recent show felt it had been graded fairly and suggested that I not waste my money sending it to NCS. I still felt it was worth a shot though, so it went in at the end of November, and I got a very nice Christmas present from NGC on this one. It just arrived in a nice new holder with an MS64 tag. This may not sound very dramatic, but the associated NGC population went from 3/4 to 4/0. There are two graded MS65 by PCGS, but we all know what might happen to those if they got crossed to NGC.

[brg5658]

I too have had good luck with crossing PCGS to NGC. However, my sample size consists of a single US/Philippine coin and it made a stop at NCS along the way. It was worth the effort though since it got bumped up two grade levels.

 

In general though I would not attempt crossing PCGS to NGC unless I really felt strongly that it would upgrade. I would also take it to a show to get a second, third or even fourth opinion as backup.

 

As an aside, even the most highly respected experts can be wrong, which is why a consensus of opinions is preferable. I recently sent several coins to NCS, one of which had already been graded by NGC as MS62. One of my chosen experts at a recent show felt it had been graded fairly and suggested that I not waste my money sending it to NCS. I still felt it was worth a shot though, so it went in at the end of November, and I got a very nice Christmas present from NGC on this one. It just arrived in a nice new holder with an MS64 tag. This may not sound very dramatic, but the associated NGC population went from 3/4 to 4/0. There are two graded MS65 by PCGS, but we all know what might happen to those if they got crossed to NGC.

 

The problem is that there is no definitive gold-standard of "right" -- all coin grading is subjective. There is no getting around it. So the concept of being right or wrong is really not one you can debate. They can be different, yes. But, one isn't more right or wrong per se.

 

I own a lot of graded world coins in both PCGS and NGC plastic, and in general I personally agree with more of the NGC grades than I do with the (often optimistic) PCGS grades. That being said, I paid fair prices for the coins based on what I thought they were worth. No one duped me into adding a coin to my collection.

 

I also find that non-USA coin collectors tend to care less about 1 or 2 point differences in grade, and tend to collect coins which look better to them. I own a couple coins in MS62 holders that I would rather have any day than even coins of the same type graded as high as MS65.

 

Unless you are a registry player or planning to sell a coin that seems to be grossly undergraded (e.g., You think MS64 vs. Label says AU58) then all of the cross-over and re-grading nonsense is just money in the pocket for the TPGs. I collect coins I like, labels and plastic are just along for the ride.

[coin928]

..., even the most highly respected experts can be wrong, which is why a consensus of opinions is preferable. ...

 

The problem is that there is no definitive gold-standard of "right" -- all coin grading is subjective. There is no getting around it. So the concept of being right or wrong is really not one you can debate. They can be different, yes. But, one isn't more right or wrong per se.

 

I own a lot of graded world coins in both PCGS and NGC plastic, and in general I personally agree with more of the NGC grades than I do with the (often optimistic) PCGS grades. That being said, I paid fair prices for the coins based on what I thought they were worth. No one duped me into adding a coin to my collection.

 

I also find that non-USA coin collectors tend to care less about 1 or 2 point differences in grade, and tend to collect coins which look better to them. I own a couple coins in MS62 holders that I would rather have any day than even coins of the same type graded as high as MS65.

 

Unless you are a registry player or planning to sell a coin that seems to be grossly undergraded (e.g., You think MS64 vs. Label says AU58) then all of the cross-over and re-grading nonsense is just money in the pocket for the TPGs. I collect coins I like, labels and plastic are just along for the ride.

 

I agree that grading can be highly subjective, so my choice of words might have been better. In hindsight I probably should have said something like ,,, even the opinions of highly respected experts may differ substantially, which is why a consensus of opinions is preferable.

 

As I've stated in other posts, my collection is part of my investment portfolio. I do collect the coins I like (with or without the labels & plastic), but I also need to position those coins for future sale. I will send raw coins in for grading, cross-over existing slabs or send them back for a re-grade if I think the cost will be more than offset by the potential monetary gain when it comes time to sell. For some coins, a two grade bump up can be well worth the money spent to get it.