• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

CAC

Started by xtera-migration,

70 posts in this topic

coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
If the coins are old holder and probably "B" or "A" coins and worth over $500, the CAC option should definitely be considered. After they CAC most of the member dealers want the coins to come back to them before they go to the customer so they can make profitable offers. For example a 1907 $20 MS64 CAC'd and they paid me $3300 or so. No dealer is going to stretch on a coin like that over low $2000s. The $12.50 fee plus shipping is often well worth it.

 

Are you talking Liberty or Saint Gaudens Double Eagle 1907 MS64? $3300 for the later is way over MV, how could CAC resell for profit - won't happen. If you mean Liberty 1907 MS64, then $3300 is well under wholesale, so either way the $3300 price does not make sense. (shrug)

 

Best, HT

 

It could happen HT. The last time I looked at the Blue Sheet (which has been about a year), the bid levels for generic MS65 Saints were well above (by a few hundred if I remember correctly) fair market value of a non CAC MS65 Saint. I am sure that the bids would probably be equally strong as a better date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
I'm a collector 1 town over from Stamford and can submit to CAC. Why o why Bill Jones?

 

Why o why?

 

Here's one for you. I've been looking for an a nice 1852-P gold dollar for the past 6 months and have come up empty. I could have bought one in MS-66 or 67 for many thousands of dollars, but I don't want to pay that for "a widget."

 

Here is one of the pieces I rejected at a show some months ago. Do you see the "L" that is scratched in above Ms. Liberty's head? This coin is graded MS-63 and it has a green CAC sticker. I known the picture is small because it was cut down from the photo of whole slab, but trust me, the "L" is there. I spotted with my 10X glass when I was going over the coin.

 

Why o why is the CAC sticker combined with the "L" which the mint did not put there? I don't know, but I do know that if I bought this coin blind based on the CAC endorsement, I would not be happy with it.

 

1852-Lgolddollardetail_zpsc6e20118.jpg

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
You miss the point. No one has ever said CAC is perfect. Yet you continue to say that some people say CAC is perfect. You have said this repeatedly over the years.

 

Then why do CAC advocates circle the wagons around the service and attack those who point out their mistakes?

 

See the previous post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jom

jom

Posted
Posted
I don't know, but I do know that if I bought this coin blind based on the CAC endorsement, I would not be happy with it.

 

Which when it comes down the brass tax just means we all need to do our own evaluation.

 

If you were unhappy with that coin CAC would buy it from you obviously. If CAC makes a mistake the own up to it. Hell, maybe they KNEW the "L" was there and had no issue with it. THAT would be THEIR choice of course.

 

So I just don't understand why there are still people who can't appreciate it for what it is. Like the 3rd party grade, the CAC is just another thing to help you evaluate a coin. No more, no less. It isn't the "know all end all".

 

jom

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr.Mcknowitall

Mr.Mcknowitall

Posted
Posted
f the coins were graded 20 years ago I'd say your better of just selling them to me :-D

 

Do you see what I mean, Mr. Lehigh? We all lapse on occasion.

 

However, I do understand your comment, and you're as human as the rest of us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
You miss the point. No one has ever said CAC is perfect. Yet you continue to say that some people say CAC is perfect. You have said this repeatedly over the years.

 

What are you, a broken record?

 

Okay, no one ever said that CAC is perfect. Many CAC adherents just circle the wagons around the service when someone points out one of their mistakes, and attack that person. The smart thing to do would be to keep quiet and let it pass. You give more publicity to those who don't find the service to be as consistent as you think it is by your actions.

 

The point is CAC has much easier job to do than PCGS or NGC grades a coin. All they say is "yes" or "no." The two grading services have to make a determination as to whether or not the coin is genuine, has been played with to a point where it is not market acceptable and put a grade on it. All CAC has to do is accept it or reject it. If CAC is on the fence about the coin, they can just reject it. The grading services are more duty bound to render an opinion, which can be controversial and potentially damaging to their customer relations if they reject a marginal coin that a large number of people think should have been graded.

 

A lot of collectors and dealers can accept or reject coins that are not up the marked on the holder standards and do it well. As such I think that CAC should do better. They should not be missing defects like the "L" that has been scratched on this coin. And if having an letter scratched into the surface of a Mint State graded piece falls under their standards for a "B" or "A" coin, then they need to revise their standards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr.Mcknowitall

Mr.Mcknowitall

Posted
Posted
You miss the point. No one has ever said CAC is perfect. Yet you continue to say that some people say CAC is perfect. You have said this repeatedly over the years.

 

What are you, a broken record?

 

Okay, no one ever said that CAC is perfect. Many CAC adherents just circle the wagons around the service when someone points out one of their mistakes, and attack that person. The smart thing to do would be to keep quiet and let it pass. You give more publicity to those who don't find the service to be as consistent as you think it is by your actions.

 

The point is CAC has much easier job to do than PCGS or NGC grades a coin. All they say is "yes" or "no." The two grading services have to make a determination as to weather or not the coin is genuine, has been played with to a point where it is not market acceptable and put a grade on it. All CAC has to do is accept it or reject it. If CAC is on the fence about the coin, they can just reject it. The grading services are more duty bound to render an opinion, which can be controversial and potentially damaging to their customer relations if they reject a marginal coin that a large number of people think should have been graded.

 

A lot of collectors and dealers can accept or reject coins that are not up the marked on the holder standards and do it well. As such I think that CAC should do better. They should not be missing defects like the "L" that has been scratched on this coin. And if having an letter scratched into the surface of a Mint State graded piece falls under their standards for a "B" or "A" coin, then they need to revise their standards.

 

Weather vs. Whether, is a pet peeve of mine, and I mention it only as an Ode to Mr. Lehigh, and know otter reesen.... :whee:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

Weather vs. Whether, is a pet peeve of mine, and I mention it only as an Ode to Mr. Lehigh, and know otter reesen....

 

Thank you for pointing that out. I have changed it.

 

But we seem to be very peevish today ... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mommam17

mommam17

Posted
Posted

Ok, you finally admitted no one ever said CAC is perfect. Now, admit you wanted CAC to fail when they started out. You have denied that in the past. Yes, they say yes or no and then back it up with money for the yes coins. Of course they will reject fence coins. You can play "gotcha" all you want on certain coins, we all know they are not perfect, but overall they do a great job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted
Ok, you finally admitted no one ever said CAC is perfect. Now, admit you wanted CAC to fail when they started out. You have denied that in the past. Yes, they say yes or no and then back it up with money for the yes coins. Of course they will reject fence coins. You can play "gotcha" all you want on certain coins, we all know they are not perfect, but overall they do a great job.

 

Now you are putting words into my mouth, and you are using the tactics of a bully and a troll. Do you think that brow beating people :makepoint: because their observations do not coincide with your opinions is going to make your case? Fat chance. You are not doing your case or CAC any good.

 

The time has come for me to ignore your posts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr.Mcknowitall

Mr.Mcknowitall

Posted
Posted
Weather vs. Whether, is a pet peeve of mine, and I mention it only as an Ode to Mr. Lehigh, and know otter reesen....

 

Thank you for pointing that out. I have changed it.

 

But we seem to be very peevish today ... ;)

 

I just want to assist Mr. Lehigh in understanding the human tendency to digress from being Perfect. I thought a series of Posts that illustrate same would reinforce the point for him. No intent to offend. Weather or not you choose to use whether is a human Right, not a Board Police Right. :whee:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jom

jom

Posted
Posted
Weather vs. Whether, is a pet peeve of mine, and I mention it only as an Ode to Mr. Lehigh, and know otter reesen....

 

Thank you for pointing that out. I have changed it.

 

But we seem to be very peevish today ... ;)

 

I just want to assist Mr. Lehigh in understanding the human tendency to digress from being Perfect. I thought a series of Posts that illustrate same would reinforce the point for him. No intent to offend. Weather or not you choose to use whether is a human Right, not a Board Police Right. :whee:

 

I think brass tacks should be applied under my fingernails since I started this whole thing. Sorry about that...

 

jom

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lehigh96

lehigh96

Posted
Posted
Weather vs. Whether, is a pet peeve of mine, and I mention it only as an Ode to Mr. Lehigh, and know otter reesen....

 

Thank you for pointing that out. I have changed it.

 

But we seem to be very peevish today ... ;)

 

I just want to assist Mr. Lehigh in understanding the human tendency to digress from being Perfect. I thought a series of Posts that illustrate same would reinforce the point for him. No intent to offend. Weather or not you choose to use whether is a human Right, not a Board Police Right. :whee:

 

All they illustrated is what an you are. When I pointed it out, I apologized for doing so, further indicating that it is something that bugs me. It certainly didn't deserve your over the top trolling responses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr.Mcknowitall

Mr.Mcknowitall

Posted
Posted
Weather vs. Whether, is a pet peeve of mine, and I mention it only as an Ode to Mr. Lehigh, and know otter reesen....

 

Thank you for pointing that out. I have changed it.

 

But we seem to be very peevish today ... ;)

 

I just want to assist Mr. Lehigh in understanding the human tendency to digress from being Perfect. I thought a series of Posts that illustrate same would reinforce the point for him. No intent to offend. Weather or not you choose to use whether is a human Right, not a Board Police Right. :whee:

 

All they illustrated is what an you are. When I pointed it out, I apologized for doing so, further indicating that it is something that bugs me. It certainly didn't deserve your over the top trolling responses.

 

Thanks.

 

But, yes, it does deserve my OTT responses. You were rude. You didn't apologize, you used the word sorry in an entirely different (habitual) manner. If you didn't want to be rude, pm him. The world doesn't really care what you're (did that on purpose) pet peeve is, or what bugs you. This is not Harvard. It is a chat board.

 

Your present response indicates that my Posts made an impression. That is what I wanted to accomplish. You have a less than courteous mannerism about you, and you are never called on it. Other than that, I am sure you are a nice person.

 

Don't start nuttin, won't be nuttin, to quote a great movie line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BillJones

BillJones

Posted
Posted

The message I want to leave for new collectors is that you cannot rely solely on that green or gold sticker to determine if a coin is a good buy. There are problem pieces that CAC has missed. Everyone who knows how grade knows that is true, but not everyone will not admit that, often because they have a financial stake in CAC.

 

You CAC promoters can fire away at me with all of you insults, but it do you no good. Objective people know I have written the truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mommam17

mommam17

Posted
Posted

Of course there are problem pieces that CAC has missed. I think everyone will admit that, as they are not perfect. The problem was you were saying, for years, that many people say CAC is perfect......

Link to comment
Share on other sites
GoldFinger1969

GoldFinger1969

Posted
Posted
Of course there are problem pieces that CAC has missed. I think everyone will admit that, as they are not perfect. The problem was you were saying, for years, that many people say CAC is perfect......

 

Maybe he was just speaking metaphorically.......

 

Look, from my perspective CAC is just a confirmation of a grade. Grading companies are RARELY (trying to cover my butt here ! :grin: ) off by more than 1 grade, so if you have a CAC endorsement it's a very very good sign that even a VERY DISCRIMINATING SAVVY COLLECTOR will agree with your assessment (theirs).

 

I think we are splitting hairs here, on CAC specifically, and grading in general. It helps, but it is NEVER the be-all and end-all. Better than nothing, for sure, and much more preferable to novices/newbies/less-sophisticated buyers than the Wild West pre-1986.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
nater222-migration

nater222-migration

Posted
Posted
Of course there are problem pieces that CAC has missed. I think everyone will admit that, as they are not perfect. The problem was you were saying, for years, that many people say CAC is perfect......

 

I have an idea guys!! Lets start a new company called PCAC (precision certified acceptance corporation) and hire all the people that used to work for these other grading companies. We would only grade CAC stickered coins. Then we can call ourselves the trifecta of coin grading!! We could list how many times these coins have been on airplanes, trucks, total miles travelled etc!! Eureka! I'm calling my mom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hard Times

Hard Times

Posted
Posted
Nope, not a bully or troll, those were your words. You said it would cost too much in postage to send your coins to CAC. I speak the truth and you know it.....

 

Mommam, out of your last 50 posts, 36 were in threads with CAC in the title. Out of your last 100 posts, 73 were in threads with CAC in the title or you mentioned CAC in your post, and that takes your posts here back to 6/19/13, almost 1.5 years. I am thinkin you have a fixation on CAC or you work for them which would explain why you are so defensive about anyone that says anything that is not glowing about them... (shrug)

 

Which is it? And when you reply, it will be 74 of 101. :roflmao:

 

Best, HT

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mommam17

mommam17

Posted
Posted

WOW Hardtimes, I'm impressed you follow me. I'm a 46 year collector of classic commems and seldom collect any thing else, so my interest in coins is somewhat limited. Yes, I support CAC and no I don't work for them. 74 of 101........

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lastufka Collection

Lastufka Collection

Posted
Posted

Regardless of the occasional mistake, I'm glad CAC exists. I'm a terrible grader, even after reading the ANA grading book and seeing hundreds of coins in hand/in slabs. I make most of my buying decisions based on eye appeal, which for me means no spots, stains, limited toning (I usually don't find it attractive, but some do look amazing), nicks and marks are fine, depending where they are, out of the primary focal points is preferred. But strike grading eludes me. So I tend to look more carefully at CAC'ed coins for sale, because when I find one that appeals to my eye, I know the grade is (usually) solid and I don't have to think about that too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing