What do you think on this one? NT?

[wdrob]

What is your opinion of the toning on this Half, NT or AT, or Quest. Color?

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I wouldn't touch it.

 

Or, at least wash your hands after you do, because those chemicals can rub off.

[wdrob]

I wouldn't touch it.

 

Or, at least wash your hands after you do, because those chemicals can rub off.

 

 

Hahaha!

 

Thanks for chiming in on that Jason. What if I broadened the possibilities that it could have been stuck in this coin purse since 1893?

 

 

Any chance in that causing wild colors?

 

 

[coinman_23885]

It doesn't look natural to me.

[rrantique]

I wouldn't touch it.

 

Or, at least wash your hands after you do, because those chemicals can rub off.

 

 

Hahaha!

 

Thanks for chiming in on that Jason. What if I broadened the possibilities that it could have been stuck in this coin purse since 1893?

 

 

Any chance in that causing wild colors?

 

 

Bill since the coin purse is leather maybe the tannic acid in the coin purse could cause some wild colors.

 

edited for spelling

[newprepper]

I really don't know, but trying to remember some of the coins that everybody says are nt, if I recall there was a progression that included green which I don't see here, but it seems some of the real old proofs had the bolder blues and purples, I don't know.........I'll just shut up now

[newprepper]

I do like it though, if reasonably priced I would have bought it.

[TonerGuy]

I think its NT but its not MA so I dont think it will grade.

 

If it came with the change purse I would have definitely bought it. I dont think I would have bought it without though. You can find nicer examples with toning that would be considered MA.

[wdrob]

Thanks for the opinions so far.

 

Irvin, that is what I was thinking could have caused it if it was indeed NT.

 

I will say right up front that I bought the coin purse and a pocket watch fob along with one 1892 that is pictured over in Spare a Grade section and I considered this 1893 just to be an additional item that happened to come with it. I was after the other items more so than the coins.

 

My opinion on this coin was mixed and since I bought them all in one lot (the coin purse, the watch fob, and the two coins) I started to think that possibly this coin had been in that leather coin purse for generations and the result is what you see.

 

When I received the coin and looked at it closely it is in really good shape other than the top of the coin around the 11:30 position being partially clipped. The lusted comes through the colors with extreme vibrance and the more I started thinking about how funky I have seen some coins that were NT, it started to sway my opinion on this piece possibly being NT as well.

 

That is why I wanted to get some other opinions from those far more experienced. I have no plans of ever submitting the coin. I would like to get an idea of whether it is conceivable for a coin, stored in the leather coin purse as seen below, to have developed such a wild look based off any acidity in the leather.

 

Jason I agreed with you. My first thought was chemical induced toning.

 

 

 

 

[wdrob]

 

I found this example on HA that exhibits a similar blue toning. This example was graded MS67 Problem Free.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is, the blue colors had me most concerned and now that I have seen a few others that toned blue as well I am starting to think there may be something about that leather coin purse that created what is seen in the original posted coin.

 

 

 

 

Food for thought.

 

 

[wdrob]

I think its NT but its not MA so I dont think it will grade.

 

If it came with the change purse I would have definitely bought it. I dont think I would have bought it without though. You can find nicer examples with toning that would be considered MA.

 

Ahh! TonerGuy - I did not notice that you had chimed in until just now.

 

 

Yes I bought the articles that I updated in this post, not because of the coins, but the two coins along with the other items makes for an excellent representation of the Columbian Exposition.

 

The piece is just for personal collection and not to be graded and sold so not being MA is fine with me.

 

 

 

 

[TonerGuy]

I think that is an excellent collection you purchased. Very interesting.

 

And now that I know you bought it as a lot, I feel even stronger that the color is NT, but it still may not be MA just because of the silliness of NGC and PCGS.

 

Nice pick-up!

[MarkFeld]

I think that is an excellent collection you purchased. Very interesting.

 

And now that I know you bought it as a lot, I feel even stronger that the color is NT, but it still may not be MA just because of the silliness of NGC and PCGS.

 

Nice pick-up!

 

I agree that even if the coin is NT - and I'm skeptical that it is - it is probably not market acceptable. But I disagree about the silliness.

 

The color doesn't look original to me. And even if there were proof that the coin toned on its own in that purse, to me, that wouldn't be justification to label it NT. Because assessments should be made based on the appearance of the coin, not the story that accompanies them.

[coinman_23885]

I think that is an excellent collection you purchased. Very interesting.

 

And now that I know you bought it as a lot, I feel even stronger that the color is NT, but it still may not be MA just because of the silliness of NGC and PCGS.

 

Nice pick-up!

 

I agree that even if the coin is NT - and I'm skeptical that it is - it is probably not market acceptable. But I disagree about the silliness.

 

The color doesn't look original to me. And even if there were proof that the coin toned on its own in that purse, to me, that wouldn't be justification to label it NT. Because assessments should be made based on the appearance of the coin, not the story that accompanies them.

 

+1

 

There is no way for a TPG to objectively verify these accounts anyway, and so only the coin should matter.

[wdrob]

 

I think that is an excellent collection you purchased. Very interesting.

 

And now that I know you bought it as a lot, I feel even stronger that the color is NT, but it still may not be MA just because of the silliness of NGC and PCGS.

 

Nice pick-up!

 

Thank you. I must say that I was very surprised to see, after the auction had ended, that I was the only person to bid on this little lot. I thought $169.00 was very fair or all the items, not even including the two coins. I had even placed my snipe bid at a little over $200.00 - maybe my sense of value of the history of this stuff is way off base.

 

 

I agree that even if the coin is NT - and I'm skeptical that it is - it is probably not market acceptable. But I disagree about the silliness.

 

The color doesn't look original to me. And even if there were proof that the coin toned on its own in that purse, to me, that wouldn't be justification to label it NT. Because assessments should be made based on the appearance of the coin, not the story that accompanies them.

 

 

+1

 

There is no way for a TPG to objectively verify these accounts anyway, and so only the coin should matter.

 

+2 - when it comes to actual grading of the coin by a TPG.

 

I can only theorize about that coin being in that leather coin purse. I will also add that I do not find this type of toning to be attractive either. Although that piece sure is colorful even to a color blind person such as myself.

 

I think I will chalk this one up as Questionable Color yet leave it in the state it is now. I have no reason to try to make it look prettier or MA.

 

Since I keep the coins and medals raw, I have a spreadsheet listing the composition, diameter, weight, approx. raw values, as well as notes pertaining to toning and such, so when I suddenly buy the farm, my wife will have some frame of reference she can include when 'cleaning up my mess' with a company such as Great Collections or other full service house, or I could always provision for the collection ( junk ) to remain intact and passed on to a relative. Then, they may one day find the inside of a slab once again.

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

The blue and red colors aren't necessarily what bother me about the piece - its the irregular and splotchy patterns. It is entirely conceivable that it may have toned in that coin purse (and actually, given the way leather folds and the coin could be in contact, plausible even). However, that pattern is probably not market acceptable, even if it is natural.

[wdrob]

The blue and red colors aren't necessarily what bother me about the piece - its the irregular and splotchy patterns. It is entirely conceivable that it may have toned in that coin purse (and actually, given the way leather folds and the coin could be in contact, plausible even). However, that pattern is probably not market acceptable, even if it is natural.

 

I think I understand exactly.

 

No plans to sell it but I wonder if there would be many around here that would like to get it in their hands to take a closer look, and then possibly even take turns at taking the best photo similarly to the photo contest you had at one time.

 

If there is any interest then let me know and we could do it very much similar to the way you did. One mail it to another and then eventually back to me.

 

 

 

[TonerGuy]

I would mount those pieces together. They would make a beautiful framed set...

 

Check this one out....

 

Expo Display

[mommam17]

coin does not look natural to me like the 67.

[wdrob]

I would mount those pieces together. They would make a beautiful framed set...

 

Check this one out....

 

Expo Display

 

Thats not a bad idea at all. I was eyeballing a complete sheet of tickets in a frame. Thanks

 

 

 

*** This took me much longer to respond that normal. Apparently I started this response and then laid down to take a nap.

[Xamgin-migration]

Hi!

Its perfect and appreciate your nice covers of this coin!!

[wdrob]

Thanks and Welcome to the forum!

[Kurtdog]

I'll say it's QT. That means it's not MA because I don't know if it's AT or NT and if it's AT it's not MA and if it's NT it is MA. That means it doesn't grade. Do I like it? Well, again, if I think it's QT, I don't know. If it's AT and not MA I don't like it but if it's NT and MA I like it. You see, I know what I like.

[newprepper]

KD, you are FUBAR........haha

[Kurtdog]

KD, you are FUBAR........haha

I was never like that until I started hanging out in these coin forums and tried to answer all these difficult questions.The Wifey thinks there's a connection there.

[wdrob]

 

Kurt, I was chuckling as I waited for the page to load since I knew your opinion would be humorous.

 

I personally think the term Market Acceptable has no place in the discussion whatsoever when discussing toned coins, and the opinion of the toning being natural or artificially.

 

In order to make my case I will use for example the opinions that expressed that they thought it was possible for the coin to have toned naturally in that leather coin purse, however they qualified the opinion further by then stating that they don't think it would be MA.

 

I understand the term MA to mean that it would not be accepted into the marketplace, that there would not be a buyer for said coin, and it is therefore simply just a piece of silver with no value added.

 

Now, if the term MA is really intended by those that use it, to claim that the coin could never find its way into a TPG companies holder, then they should use an alternate, and more accurate term like, "That will never make it into a TPG companies holder."

 

Claiming that this coin, or any of the other questionable coins that have been presented on this forum and others, would not be accepted into the market is the farthest from reality. I base this on the fact that a coin does not HAVE to be in a plastic slab in order for it to sell.

 

There are so many raw coins that are MARKETED solely based upon the unique or exaggerated toning (and even those coins that were intentionally toned and marketed with full disclosure) that are bought and sold each and every day, that for anyone to not call that a market are either not aware of the actual definition of a market or just wish to overlook it.

 

My point being; I wish that folks would quit throwing in the caveat of "not MA" when we all know that this is not true. Why not just base your opinion strictly on whether you think it is possible for it to have been created naturally (without intention) or if it is artificial (intentionally) by your experience on other examples, and leave it at that.

 

This toning aspect of coin collecting is most definitely not without its fair share of debate, and surprisingly the debate remains while continuing to rely on the "MA" term.

 

In 1975 - "I have an idea for the perfect pet. A pet rock.Never needs feeding, never defecates, urinates, makes other meses, throws a wrench into our vacation plans, and will never die"

 

"You have got to be off your rockers - there would never be a market for something like that."

 

 

Maybe our idea of Market Acceptability is sometimes completely off base.

 

 

 

 

[newprepper]

If it gets into a slab, it's MA, if it doesn't get in a slab, it's MA. That would sell easily either way.

[Kurtdog]

Kurt, I was chuckling as I waited for the page to load since I knew your opinion would be humorous.

 

I personally think the term Market Acceptable has no place in the discussion whatsoever when discussing toned coins, and the opinion of the toning being natural or artificially.

 

In order to make my case I will use for example the opinions that expressed that they thought it was possible for the coin to have toned naturally in that leather coin purse, however they qualified the opinion further by then stating that they don't think it would be MA.

 

I understand the term MA to mean that it would not be accepted into the marketplace, that there would not be a buyer for said coin, and it is therefore simply just a piece of silver with no value added.

 

Now, if the term MA is really intended by those that use it, to claim that the coin could never find its way into a TPG companies holder, then they should use an alternate, and more accurate term like, "That will never make it into a TPG companies holder."

 

Claiming that this coin, or any of the other questionable coins that have been presented on this forum and others, would not be accepted into the market is the farthest from reality. I base this on the fact that a coin does not HAVE to be in a plastic slab in order for it to sell.

 

There are so many raw coins that are MARKETED solely based upon the unique or exaggerated toning (and even those coins that were intentionally toned and marketed with full disclosure) that are bought and sold each and every day, that for anyone to not call that a market are either not aware of the actual definition of a market or just wish to overlook it.

 

My point being; I wish that folks would quit throwing in the caveat of "not MA" when we all know that this is not true. Why not just base your opinion strictly on whether you think it is possible for it to have been created naturally (without intention) or if it is artificial (intentionally) by your experience on other examples, and leave it at that.

 

This toning aspect of coin collecting is most definitely not without its fair share of debate, and surprisingly the debate remains while continuing to rely on the "MA" term.

 

In 1975 - "I have an idea for the perfect pet. A pet rock.Never needs feeding, never defecates, urinates, makes other meses, throws a wrench into our vacation plans, and will never die"

 

"You have got to be off your rockers - there would never be a market for something like that."

 

 

Maybe our idea of Market Acceptability is sometimes completely off base.

I'm always happy to oblige, .

 

OK, serious part. Just the way I see it, Bill. "MA" means "MA in that TPG's marketplace." After all, as you imply, who are they to say otherwise? Thus, "QT" is the PCGS cockeyed designation for it's not "MA" in that marketplace. That's all. Big deal.

 

They make those marketplaces, right? We can't force one of their grades on a coin we like? Those are their marketplaces? Ergo, big deal.

[newprepper]

I always thought the marketplace was decided by buyers and sellers. I cant go to a TPG and buy coins, so I go to a seller. And I determine what is MA to me. My market, my determination.

[Kurtdog]

I always thought the marketplace was decided by buyers and sellers. I cant go to a TPG and buy coins, so I go to a seller. And I determine what is MA to me. My market, my determination.

Their marketplace is the marketplace for their labels. They and only they decide which coins play in that marketplace.