Guess the grade.

[Raisethis2]

I'm seeing a tick on the cheek and some chatter in the left obverse field. The reverse has a major abrasion next to "N" in United. I'm guessing MS 63, Maybe as high as MS 64 if it's not been cleaned.

[coinman_23885]

Without the artificial toning, I would guess MS64.

[coinman_23885]

Now, to elaborate on the toning...

 

I think it is NT for the following reasons.

 

1) It displays elevation chromatics.

2) the toning is primarily blue and reddish/brown, which are the two most common colors on toned peace dollars.

3) the rims are devoid of toning, which usually isnt the case on AT'ed coins.

 

Where are you seeing evidence of elevation chromatics? Also, I'm not sure that I would rely on #3 as a diagnostic. My first thought was AT. The color is splotchy, that shade of blue looks off to me.

[TonerGuy]

AU55...

 

I see a fair amount of rub on the reverse. Not so much on the obverse though. I cant tell if the lack of hair definition is rub or a weak strike.

 

I know you didnt want thoughts as to toning but IMHO, its circulated/cleaned and retoned, not AT.

 

Dont always accept what NGC says about toning. Or for that matter what PCGS says either.

[jom]

I don't know...I'm not sure this coin is AT. It does have the elevation chromatics going for it. So I'll have to agree with Jersey Cat on this one....at least until one could see it in hand.

 

jom

[orifdoc]

It seems to me that if a coin is artificially toned, it can't be assigned a numerical grade...... It would be like asking how fast a Corvette can go without an engine. The number just doesn't mean anything at that point.

 

..... but, compared to other 1924 dollars, I don't see many bagmarks. There is a small hit on the cheek and one on the upper neck. I can't see the fields well enough to rule out hairlines. Hits could easily be hiding in the reverse toning but I don't see any. So for surfaces I see it around MS64-65.

 

Strike is below average for a 1924. Feathers and hair are not well defined. Say this deducts half a point. Luster is completely a guess from the photos. No clue here. It looks like it might have some. The cheek looks a little to lifeless to me. Possibly it's even a slider.....

 

All sorts of stuff could be hiding in the toning and in the lighting used for the photos. If the toning is completely ignored and if there's no other hidden mischief, it could grade MS62-MS65, depending mostly on luster and surfaces.

[Afterword]

"Dont always accept what NGC says about toning. Or for that matter what PCGS says either."

 

 

 

 

 

I submitted the coin for grading, hoping that NGC would determine that it was NT. They did not. For me, there is no turning back at this point. I cannot, in good conscious, remove the coin from the holder and sell it, without disclosing that NGC had determined that it was AT. I will not have it regraded for the same reason.

 

This being said, the coin is better off left in the holder, which affords it some protection from the environment and excellent protection from handling marks.

 

 

 

[Afterword]

"It seems to me that if a coin is artificially toned, it can't be assigned a numerical grade......"

 

 

 

NGC could give AT coins grades - just as they give NT coins grades. To borrow from your analogy; the engine is still there - it has just been artificially, and superficially, enhanced.

 

You still have to determine a value for an AT coin, and knowing the grade, in my opinion, should play a role in making that determination.

 

[TonerGuy]

I submitted the coin for grading, hoping that NGC would determine that it was NT. They did not. For me, there is no turning back at this point. I cannot, in good conscious, remove the coin from the holder and sell it, without disclosing that NGC had determined that it was AT. I will not have it regraded for the same reason.

 

This being said, the coin is better off left in the holder, which affords it some protection from the environment and excellent protection from handling marks.

 

Well from what I see and what I have seen over the past 15 years of submitting/collecting/dealing in toned Peace $, (they have been my primary area of interests and I can say I have seen thousands of them, graded & raw) I can tell you that NGC and PCGS often get it wrong as well as many dealers. I have bought "AT" Peace $ according to the dealers just to have them grade later on.

 

Toned Peace $ are not Morgans. Graders at NGC/PCGS just dont see as many to understand how they tone. You cannot apply Morgan toning characteristics to Peace $. And sometimes in a knee-jerk reaction to something new/unfamiliar they AT/QT a coin. When in fact the toning is NT. I had NGC bag 13 out of 13 modern toners because they were "just too colorful" to be natural. I sent them to PCGS and all of them graded. I hand picked each coin out of the holder where it was toned and bought them all for very little premium.

 

If this coin really is an MS64 then it is well worth trying again and possibly again. MS64 toned Peace $ with that color will bring strong money at auction ($300-$500). In the current holder it may fetch $100.

 

I dont think its nefarious in anyway to disagree with NCG/PCGS and resubmit the coin until you get the grade/designation it deserves.

 

[Afterword]

"I dont think its nefarious in anyway to disagree with NCG/PCGS and resubmit the coin until you get the grade/designation it deserves."

 

 

 

 

I plan on selling my collectables fifteen to twenty years from now. Many things could change by then, perhaps even my views on this subject.

 

 

 

[Afterword]

Thanks for your opinions everyone!

[TonerGuy]

Well in 20yrs put me down as a buyer for this Peace $. Thanks and enjoy !