Is it my imagination or is the price of high grade Saints still falling?

[RWB]

Stickering Saints is difficult, but now that there are two new ones, it should be a little easier.

[CSdot]

Stickering Saints is difficult, but now that there are two new ones, it should be a little easier.

 

Two new whats?

 

I have some stickered gold, including stickered saints that were purchased that way. That said, I have not sent any into CAC, but suspect some of my others would get a sticker.

[physics-fan3.14]

Stickering Saints is difficult, but now that there are two new ones, it should be a little easier.

 

Two new whats?

 

Two new saints. He's referring to John Paul II who was recently sainted, and one other guy who's name escapes me.

[jpcienkus]

Stickering Saints is difficult, but now that there are two new ones, it should be a little easier.

 

Two new whats?

 

Two new saints. He's referring to John Paul II who was recently sainted, and one other guy who's name escapes me.

 

The other is the Pope that he replaced, who resigned the post, John XXIII.

[GoldFinger1969]

Carl, how do the 66-CAC and non-CAC coins compare to 67 coins? How do they compare to 66-Plus graded coins? I don't know what the pops are, or how many have sold (if there are enough to form a valid comparison). Theoretically, a 66-CAC and a 66+ should be valued roughly the same (since both are, hypothetically, the "premium" coins - A's and B's for the date). However, I suspect that 66-CAC coins will sell for more than 66-Plus coins. It would take a very common date to break it down even further, and analyze NGC vs. PCGS for each of these strata.

 

Interesting questions and yet at the same time it could be total BS.

 

We all acknowledge that even the TPGs can be off 1-2 grades on a bad day. So to think that even on a GOOD day they are going to really go "by the book" and differentiate an MS-66 vs. an MS-66+ (do the TPGs really have rules for the "+" designation? I see very few of them).

 

CAC sticker vs. "+" designation ? Flip a coin......you're comparing 2 judgement calls.

[GoldFinger1969]

The other is the Pope that he replaced, who resigned the post, John XXIII.

 

John XXIII died during Vatican Council II; there were 2 other Popes before JP2. (thumbs u

[jom]

CAC sticker vs. "+" designation ? Flip a coin......you're comparing 2 judgement calls.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. However, when CAC stickers coins they ignore the "+" sign as that would be, from their POV, redundant.

 

jom

[jkrk]

CAC sticker vs. "+" designation ? Flip a coin......you're comparing 2 judgement calls.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. However, when CAC stickers coins they ignore the "+" sign as that would be, from their POV, redundant.

 

jom

 

Just so I understand.....

 

A MS64 coin with a CAC sticker and a MS64+ coin with a CAC sticker should, in theory, should sell for the same price?

[CSdot]

CAC sticker vs. "+" designation ? Flip a coin......you're comparing 2 judgement calls.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. However, when CAC stickers coins they ignore the "+" sign as that would be, from their POV, redundant.

 

jom

 

Just so I understand.....

 

A MS64 coin with a CAC sticker and a MS64+ coin with a CAC sticker should, in theory, should sell for the same price?

 

I am curious about this too. I would have thought a CAC stickered MS64+ coin would mean a MS64+ coin on the top half of the MS64+ coins, rather than just the top half of the MS64 coins?

[flintcreek6412]

CAC sticker vs. "+" designation ? Flip a coin......you're comparing 2 judgement calls.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. However, when CAC stickers coins they ignore the "+" sign as that would be, from their POV, redundant.

 

jom

 

I'm a tad confused here too. So my 66+ with CAC coins are basically the same as a 66+ no CAC and a 66 with CAC? In other words, a 66+ with CAC carries no premium?

 

I assumed(yes, I may be the in assume) that a 66+ with CAC was basically the best of the best and might even have a shot at 67. With premium jumps from 66 to 67 sometimes in the 3x range I've considered cracking them out and resubmitting. But if the + designation means little to CAC then there is no point.

 

Am I way wrong?

[physics-fan3.14]

No, my understanding is that CAC ignores the Plus designation. Thus, a 64+ CAC is considered to be an A or B 64 coin by Cac, and a Top 30% 64 coin by the TPG.

[GoldFinger1969]

Just so I understand.....

A MS64 coin with a CAC sticker and a MS64+ coin with a CAC sticker should, in theory, should sell for the same price?

 

According to conventional wisdom, pretty much so. CAC ideally says that the coin is high for the grade; the + says the same thing.

[GoldFinger1969]

CAC sticker vs. "+" designation ? Flip a coin......you're comparing 2 judgement calls.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. However, when CAC stickers coins they ignore the "+" sign as that would be, from their POV, redundant.jom

 

Correct....I can't even recall seeing any CAC + coins; if someone has the + designation already, getting the CAC sticker is kinda redundant.

[RWB]

The whole mess seems kinda redundant; stickers, plus signs, stars, smiley faces, exclaimation points - all for stuff that cannot be objectively measured or repeated.

[jom]

CAC sticker vs. "+" designation ? Flip a coin......you're comparing 2 judgement calls.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. However, when CAC stickers coins they ignore the "+" sign as that would be, from their POV, redundant.jom

 

Correct....I can't even recall seeing any CAC + coins; if someone has the + designation already, getting the CAC sticker is kinda redundant.

 

Yes, unless you don't believe the TPGs original grade. CAC designates A and B coins, the "+" designates an A coin. What I was trying to say earlier is that CAC does NOT evaluate the "+" for it's PLUS ie A, B or C "+" coins (if that makes any sense). If you ask JA about this he'll tell you that the present state of grading has too many levels (which I completely agree with) let alone trying to be more precise on a "+" grade. Therefore, CAC simply ignores it and judges the coin based on the numerical grade.

 

The whole mess seems kinda redundant; stickers, plus signs, stars, smiley faces, exclaimation points - all for stuff that cannot be objectively measured or repeated.

 

I agree. As I alluded to above I think the one major reason it "cannot be objectively measured or repeated" is the idea of precision grading. There really are too many grade levels. You can't take an inherently subjective measure like coin grading and put it to a precise scale. It's like trying to measure the length of a car with a 1/8 inch scaled ruler while the car if flying by you at 80 MPH. I just doesn't work...

 

jom

[RWB]

When numeric "grades" became established for uncirculated coins only 60, 63, 65 and 67 were used. The reason was that that was as accurately as the coins could be assigned into "grade" bins. Later the intermediate numbers expressed intermediate "grades." 64 was between 63 and 65, for example. It was left to individuals to exercise some small amount of responsibility and knowledge to make any further determinations for each coin they examined.

 

The present mess - and it is a true mess - has no benefit for the hobby except for those ignorant enough to pay more for less.

[jom]

When numeric "grades" became established for uncirculated coins only 60, 63, 65 and 67 were used. The reason was that that was as accurately as the coins could be assigned into "grade" bins. Later the intermediate numbers expressed intermediate "grades." 64 was between 63 and 65, for example. It was left to individuals to exercise some small amount of responsibility and knowledge to make any further determinations for each coin they examined.

 

The present mess - and it is a true mess - has no benefit for the hobby except for those ignorant enough to pay more for less.

 

What? You mean to tell me you can't distinguish between a MS63+RD DCAM "star" Lincoln and an MS64RB CAM with gold CAC sticker? C'mon! What's wrong with you?

 

jom

[MJ]

Generic 66 PCGS CAC Saints seem to have fallen from $4200ish to $4000ish over the past couple of months.

 

MJ

[jom]

Generic 66 PCGS CAC Saints seem to have fallen from $4200ish to $4000ish over the past couple of months.

 

MJ

 

Wow...what a crash!

 

jom

[RWB]

I know, I know....I am a fogey who refuses to be led to the Kool-Aid laced pond of nirvana and holy nectar....Yes, the ducks quack more sweetly in that pond (or is it, "the Quacks duck more deeply"...never could keep that straight), and the frogs all inhale. But what do they inhale?

[MJ]

Generic 66 PCGS CAC Saints seem to have fallen from $4200ish to $4000ish over the past couple of months.

 

MJ

 

Wow...what a crash!

 

jom

 

You can get some 66 PCGS CAC Saints every once in awhile on APMEX for $3800 ish but you have to be quick. I believe bid on 66 CAC Saints is still holding at around $3750. Most dealer sights $4100 is the sweet spot on the sale side. Maybe Mark could verify the bid.

 

It feels like over the past 6 months 66 CAC Saints have fallen < 5%…………Hard to buy any quantities

 

MJ

[GoldFinger1969]

The whole mess seems kinda redundant; stickers, plus signs, stars, smiley faces, exclaimation points - all for stuff that cannot be objectively measured or repeated.

 

I 100% agree, but it's the game we have chosen.

[RWB]

I do not buy "generic" gold -- only "geriatric" gold.

 

PS: The game lasts only as long as collectors continue to play.