These are fakes, right? Help -- Good to beware of these kind

[joes2001]

Hi. I met this guy on craigslist (i know, bad idea. But i've scored a few times on there) and bought a bag of coins he "inherited 17 years ago." There was a lot of wheat cents and indian head cents in G condition, mostly with problems of some kind. Then there were three coins, each in a plastic capsule that had to be broken open when I got home. That's when I discovered the 3 cent was a fake: it had reeding!! To the naked eye the coin looked awesome, but with a 5x magnifier you can see that the details, lettering, etc., are sort of grainy/soft in comparison to a real 3 cent piece. But this alone is hard to go by, since my real one has some softness to it in only some spots.

 

The other coins are more deceptive in my opinion. Can you help me find reasons they're fake? The cent didn't feel right when I was holding it. It seemed thinner, and the device on the obverse seemed like it was artificially worn. It might have started at a AU grade, then it appears some areas, like the Liberty headband, and other key spots were recently worn down. The back corrosion looks good, too good. What do you think? I really learned from this experience. I spent 120 for everything. It hit me hard, more psychologically than anything. It made me appreciate TPGs more.

 

The token I have even less experience with. But it's in the redbook, under "head left." It looks good to me, but it has to be a fake considering the whole deal was bad. Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[yonico]

Never a good idea to buy coins in parking lots, off Craigslist, at gas stations etc.. I know of at one case where a guy was robbed at gunpoint when responding to a CL post pretending to be selling coins.

 

And I always open those airtites when I buy a coin - they can hide rim damage. If they won't let you inspect the coins up close before buying, just pass..

 

 

Also, Could you please edit your post and for every picture link put "" at the end of it so we can see all the pics, like this:

 

 

Thank you

[benjmurts]

The lettering on the 3 cent looks off, and the Indian head is a dead giveaway because of the headdress point between CA, It is an 1890. The rest of the coins I don't know but the New Jersey colonial piece looks rather fake.

 

http://www.ebay.com/gds/Coin-Fake-Detection-Indian-Head-Cents-/10000000017599215/g.html

 

I have been burned a few times as well but its a learning experience.

[joes2001]

Thanks everyone for responding so far. Can you elaborate on the headdress feather pointing to CA. I am not familiar with that. Thanks

[benjmurts]

Click on the link I provided, the headdress points between IC from 1858-1886. From 1886-1909 the headdress points between CA. There are a lot of fake 1877s that point between CA.

[joes2001]

excellent read. Thanks!!!

[BillJones]

One of you best defenses is to learn what the real coins look like. This does not necessarily mean that you have to know exactly how each date looks, although that would help. For example if you are familiar with how the date on an 1870 Indian cents looks, you would have spotted that coin as a fake right away. Still the rest of the coin was also not right.

 

One of the ways that crooks now pass Chinese fakes is to make them look worn. Usually the crooks go to more trouble and impart actual wear and fake toning on their products. This guy only bothered to damage them.

 

At any rate here are photos of some genuine examples of the pieces you bought. I don't have the exact dates, but this will do.

 

As you already noted the Nickel Three Cent Piece does not have a reeded edge. The piece you bought also had a very crude planchet. Generally you won't see planchet cracks like that on a genuine piece. The strike was also not the best.

 

 

The "New Jersey Cent" you bought is not even close. Although these coins were made from many different hand made dies, none of them have the general appearance of the fake piece you posted.

 

 

One of the problems with the "1870 cent" you bought is that the position of the feathers with "United States of American" is wrong. Note where the last feather is relative the "C" in "AMERICA" on the piece you bought to where it is on this 1877 Indian cent. That feature would be changed in 1886 to look like the piece you bought, but in the years before that, the letters and feathers were in different positions. Also the bottom the "N" in "CENT" should be weak.

 

[CaptHenway]

Yes, all fake. You were right to be suspicious.

[cpm9ball]

One of you best defenses is to learn what the real coins look like. This does not necessarily mean that you have to know exactly how each date looks, although that would help. For example if you are familiar with how the date on an 1870 Indian cents looks, you would have spotted that coin as a fake right away. Still the rest of the coin was also not right.

 

One of the ways that crooks now pass Chinese fakes is to make them look worn. Usually the crooks go to more trouble and impart actual wear and fake toning on their products. This guy only bothered to damage them.

 

At any rate hear are photos of some genuine examples of the pieces you bought. I don't have the exact dates, but this will do.

 

As you already noted the Nickel Three Cent Piece does not have a reeded edge. The piece you bought also had a very crude planchet. Generally you won't see planchet cracks like that on a genuine piece. The strike was also not the best.

 

 

The "New Jersey Cent" you bought is not even close. Although these coins were made from many different hand made dies, none of them have the general appearance of the fake piece you posted.

 

 

One of the problems with the "1870 cent" you bought is that the position of the feathers with "United States of American" is wrong. Note where the last feather is relative the "C" in "AMERICA" on the piece you bought to where it is on this 1877 Indian cent. That feature would be changed in 1886 to look like the piece you bought, but in the years before that, the letters and feathers were in different positions. Also the bottom the "N" in "CENT" should be weak.

 

 

Darn, Bill! That '65 3CN sure has a nice clash. It made me think of Lou.

 

Chris

[JIM F.]

I agree that they all appear to be fakes, but perhaps there is a long shot that there is a pattern 3 cent with reeding? Need an expert to chime in, but sometimes long shots pay off.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

 

[joes2001]

good to hear all these comments. Thanks

[No+4Me]

A lot of times the fakes have grainy looking rims and botched dentils which I see on some of these koins.

[BillJones]

That 's a good name for them "Koins."

 

I don't want to call them "coins" when I calling them fakes. I end up using the word "pieces" which is more trouble to type.

[A.Phillips]

That 's a good name for them "Koins."

 

I don't want to call them "coins" when I calling them fakes. I end up using the word "pieces" which is more trouble to type.

 

[A.Phillips]

So basically, those coins are counterfeit?

[joes2001]

Yeah, they are counterfeit. The responses in here helped me see that, especially with the indian head cent. I got this book that I reccommend to everyone, if you haven't read it already. It's called "Numismatic Forgery" by Charles M. Larson. He goes through all the details of making forgeries. His advice at the end is excellent. He says: 1) We need greater awareness about our vulnerability of fakes, 2) obtain coins only from those you know and trust, 3) Train yourself to anticipate forgeries, 4) use third party grading (not all the time of course), and 5) prevent known forgeries from ever being mistaken again. He makes it clear that some forgeries are perfect, can be made perfect (perfect in the sense that no one may ever know), and are floating around in collections. It's scary, to say the least.

[JIM F.]

If counterfeit, they are probably illegal to own or have in one's possession.

[ldhair]

If counterfeit, they are probably illegal to own or have in one's possession.

No that is not correct. It legal.

[A.Phillips]

If counterfeit, they are probably illegal to own or have in one's possession.

No that is not correct. It legal.

 

Are you sure? Some dealers told me that it's illegal to own/keep the counterfeit currency, even Ricky from Pawn Stars said it on tv (I know some people said that Pawn Stars is fake show, but I am just giving an idea about it's illegal to keep the counterfeit currency).

[joes2001]

You can go to a coin shop or coin show and find tons of forgeries. The key is that they list them as such, even sell them. A dealer i know has several on display to look at but not for sale at his shop. I'll just destroy them

[Crohnos01]

I really don't know anything about these series and for that reason have never bought any. Before you just destroy them, would you consider sharing them with some folks like myself who could use them to learn from? Pictures are great but never as good as the "koin" in hand. I for one would be willing to pay you for your trouble and then return them once I had a chance to study them. Or I would just buy them from you, whichever you prefer.

[joes2001]

I appreciate the offer. I will probably keep them to study and show others as well. And I think it's really illegal to sell them for any price. But i don't know for sure, because I thought there was some exception to the law that says you can sell copies, replicas, or something as long as you describe them as such. Not sure though

[benjmurts]

You can buy replicas and copies if the seller states they are so in their description, I have bought replicas of colonial coins for a few bucks just to see what they look like in hand. You can definitely tell they aren't the real ones but it is neat to own for a few $.

[benjmurts]

Here is a prime example of something misleading

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1788-MASSACHUSETTS-COLONIAL-ONE-CENT-COIN-/380855869240?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item58acc75f38

 

Notice the letter R (for replica) NW of the date 1788

[joes2001]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting that. I always wonder about those crown sized world coins at flea markets that sell for 1 or 2 dollars each (at best, because some might sell for more if they're trying to deceive people). They sell them in dishes in plain sight. How is this legal? I think any forgery made before the 70s (the hobby protection act?) doesn't have to have a marking on it like "replica" etc.