CAC green beaned at 63, goes to 64 CAC beans green again

[MarkFeld]

Why should they back off on something that's been going on for years in numismatics? I don't think that's why people disagree with CAC. The first person, I remember disagreeing with CAC said it would cost him too much money in postage and wanted it to fail. Then later when he bought an expensive gold commem, where did he go?? Yup, right to CAC for an opinion. YES, I've been a supporter of CAC since it started in 2007, because I believe in John Albanese.

 

Why? Because they sticker no where near 67% of the coins they see and collectors and probably de more like 20 to 30% soIf you buy a coin with a grade of lower than 15 or so (it was in a white coin sleeve), I guess you have little downside if the coin really looks "OK many have told me, and these are the best ones. You mean to tell me the world consists of 80% or so C coins? I would like to hear some numismatists with decades of experience weigh in on this - what is the split between A, B, and C in proportions? How do the experts decide what is A, B, and C?

 

Below apparently is a C coin for the grade as it did not pass CAC. It is much better than any of the 53's Ha has sold over the years (albeit comparing images), shows just a touch less wear than the 58 sold at their FUN auction and much more eye appeal that the 58 (I viewed it at the lot viewing), has no major marks on the surfaces, rich in toning and dripping luster, and the nicest

 

Best, HT

 

 

 

 

 

Your post contains a number of inaccuracies and distortions.

 

You mentioned that "..Why? Because they sticker no where near 67% of the coins they see and collectors and probably de more like 20 to 30%.."

 

That assumes A and B coins constitute 67% of the population. And that's not necessarily the case.

 

And where do you get your "more like 20 to 30%"? They sticker a much higher percentage than that.

 

You also said "You mean to tell me the world consists of 80% or so C coins.." No one has said that and you used a gross exaggeration, apparently in order to try to make your point.

 

You assume that the coin you posted failed to sticker because CAC thought it was a C coin. I haven't seen it in hand, but for all I know, it had a problem not apparent in the image. And your assessment of how nice it is relative to others, is based largely on images of others. You should know better than to make such pronouncements based on images.

 

You should be preaching to and warning yourself about CAC's inconsistencies and imperfections. I think most or all of the rest of us get that. You seem to be the one who has been so surprised, disappointed and upset by it.

 

You've beaten the dead horse to death. So I think I will stop giving this thread additional attention - it has already gotten far more than it deserved.

[Tradedollarnut]

Your collection must be quite large to add up to 'thousands of dollars for regrading (sic)' at CAC

[mommam17]

No, Bill the coin was a 1796 half dime.

[BillJones]

"I had the option of returning the piece or paying $12,000 so I could find out what the “secret” CAC bid for it was. I’ll bet I would not have gotten $12,000 for it from CAC. At any rate this coin should not have had a CAC sticker if the service is a perfect as its cheerleaders claim. It sure shook my faith in the belief that CAC is “perfect.” SO, Bill did CAC buy this coin from you??

 

 

That was the 1796 half dime I referred to in my previous post. I returned it to the dealer who auctioned it to me.

 

I do favors for people here a ATS. They ask my opinion about coins in private messages, and I respond them. Sometimes it takes time and research, but I'm happy to do it for those who show me respect as a person.

 

You are getting my bad side now, and I've about had enough of you. I've asked you to stand down. The time has come for you to do it. You not will bully me into becoming a CAC minion. I am independent person, and I'm not going to do what you want.

 

[BillJones]

Your collection must be quite large to add up to 'thousands of dollars for regrading (sic)' at CAC

 

Yes it is. To have shipped and graded would be an undertaking. I live in Florida. I just can't drive over to CAC headquarters and have it done. Shipping and insurance would run into thousands of dollars.

 

But it is nowhere near what you have TDN.

[mommam17]

That's great you do favors for people. Great you are an independent person. Did you wish CAC to fail?

[Catbert]

Mark - it's hard to kill a dead horse, isn't it?

 

I can see why HT is frustrated (especially the 39-O from the pics), but I chalk up his experience to the same frustrations people have with getting the desired consistency from the TPGs - it's just not going to happen. With that reality, then one must decide what value they place on the service and, importantly, decide whether the affirmation/validation is critical to one's enjoyment of the hobby. If it is vital to obtain, then buy coins in the right holder, right grade, right sticker, etc. and let it go.

[BillJones]

That's great you do favors for people. Great you are an independent person. Did you wish CAC to fail?

 

NO

 

Happy now?

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Mark - it's hard to kill a dead horse, isn't it?

 

I can see why HT is frustrated (especially the 39-O from the pics), but I chalk up his experience to the same frustrations people have with getting the desired consistency from the TPGs - it's just not going to happen. With that reality, then one must decide what value they place on the service and, importantly, decide whether the affirmation/validation is critical to one's enjoyment of the hobby. If it is vital to obtain, then buy coins in the right holder, right grade, right sticker, etc. and let it go.

 

I used to think - make that "know" - it was impossible to beat a dead horse to death. But I've recently seen it done on more than one occasion.

[JVC]

It is interesting to see the heavyweights of this forum duking it out over CAC. My perspective on CAC is based entirely on my experience as a collector. I have only been collecting for five years and I am still learning how to properly grade coins. I find CAC helpful at this stage with my level of experience. When purchasing coins priced at $1,000.00 or more I still rely on the opinion of an experienced mentor or purchase a coin with a CAC label.

[mommam17]

NO, Bill not happy with that response at all.

[BillJones]

It is interesting to see the heavyweights of this forum duking it out over CAC. My perspective on CAC is based entirely on my experience as a collector. I have only been collecting for five years and I am still learning how to properly grade coins. I find CAC helpful at this stage with my level of experience. When purchasing coins priced at $1,000.00 or more I still rely on the opinion of an experienced mentor or purchase a coin with a CAC label.

 

CAC can be of help to you in learning to grade coins, but you can't view its pronouncements as infallible. That is point we are trying make here. CAC has a consumer protection aspect to it, but it also has a marketing facet as well. As you well know, you can't believe everything a salesman tells you.

[BillJones]

NO, Bill not happy with that response at all.

 

Well that is too bad because that's all you are going to get.

 

Now I'm done with you permanently.

 

[mommam17]

BILL, this was my reply to you 5 years ago."Bill- I`ve had problem with coins too, although not as expensive as your coin. I had a toned Maine commem that I found out had artificial toning. Also, a liberty nickel that was found to have PVC contamination. Without CAC, I would not of known about either one. I feel after 20+ years of PCGS and NGC certifying, they need a checkup. It`s been too many years. Only 40% are getting stickers. John did not anticpate such a low number. You have said many times you hate CAC and wished it would fail. I`m glad, now, you don`t want it to fail because I think it`s needed. I am 55 years old and have collected classic commems, most of the time, since 1968. I did not collect from 1985 to 1998. Like you, I`m not new to this hobby. One problem with a CAC coin should not make you give up on them. We both know even the experts do not agree all the time. I had CAC certify 78 of my coins. 68 got stickers and the ones that didn`t John explained why. Except for 2 coins, out of 78, I agreed with his evaluation, so yes I have confidence in them. I don`t think John keeps secrets about his bids. I emailed him for prices for 4 commems. I ended up selling him 2 of the coins.If you get Coinworld, check out the July 20th issue, page 10. John is behind NCA. I know you have doubts about him but I believe in what he`s trying to do. Talk to you later, mommam17"

[JVC]

I realize that CAC is not infallible, but it is helpful at this stage of my collecting. Even with my limited experience, I do not agree with the CAC on many coins and will pass because I find them unattractive or not up to my standards.

[BillJones]

If you have the chance to attend a major auction, you should go through some of the boxes. There you will see CAC approved and non CAC coins. You will CAC approved coins that you will absolutely love, and others that will match your standards. You will see others that will cause you to shake your head and wonder how that piece made the cut.

 

It just makes me wonder why someone would want to base their buying decisions on the opinion of one man. No matter how good he is, all people make mistakes. None of us are omnipotent. And given the volume of CAC coins that around and the untold numbers that have flunked, it makes me wonder how many coins really have had a good long examination by JA. I know the CAC-a-files will tell "all of them" but it makes me wonder.

 

[Catbert]

Bill - I see nothing wrong with a healthy skepticism and support taking an independent view when considering what one finds acceptable for one's collection.

[BillJones]

Bill - I see nothing wrong with a healthy skepticism and support taking an independent view when considering what one finds acceptable for one's collection.

 

(thumbs u

 

I wish that all collectors would take that approach. There is nothing wrong with looking at the work of experts and learning from their experience. Conversely blind loyalty can be a dangerous thing. This was poetically expressed in the Bob Dillon line from "Subterranean Homesick Blues", "Don't follow leaders; watch your parking meters."

[MorganMan]

I bought a coin with a green bean on it recently, and peeled it off because it made the holder look ugly. Oh, and then later cracked it out to place in my 7070...

 

Just the way I see it. I buy coins, not stickers.

 

MM

[mommam17]

Why did you peel the sticker off, if you were cracking the slab?

[stman]

Here is something I observed through the years. There were a lot of folks against CAC at the start. Some learned to respect the service in time. And some that were against it at the start, once they got their coins reviewed and a lot of them got the sticker..... they thought CAC was the greatest! Especially if they got a compliment from the man himself. So basically once they got their ego stroked, and a pat on the shoulder with a sticker they now defend CAC to the greatest way they can.

 

BTW, this is what I've observed first hand and no doubt it will ruffle some feathers.

[jom]

I can certainly see both sides of this. TDN uses it as an educational tool especially if you are spending a great deal of money. I've said many times having the opportunity of talk with JA is extremely helpful especially on the rejected coins. In most cases, like TDN, I kept the coin because I liked it. I did not necessarily agree with CAC's assessment I just didn't let it dictate what I like or collect.

 

But like Bill and HT, I've seen or bought coins I just don't understand. One coin in particular I sent in (20P SLQ) I never understood the rejection. On the other end there was an 1834 CBQ I bought online (without seeing it first) that had a sticker but when I received I was actually shocked it passed at CAC. I got my money back on the latter and the SLQ I still have. No big deal.

 

I don't think grading will ever be something you can precisely attribute and I roll my eyes when I hear people talk (even the TPGs) fractional decimal grading ( ). I just don't worry too much about that stuff and try use whatever system as a learning tool and try not to get all cynical about it.

 

Enjoy your coins not your labels!

 

jom

[Hard Times]

I would hazard a guess that A coins are 10-15%, B coins are 35-40% and C coins are 45-50% of a classic coin's population. The overall numbers you are quoting include lots of generic gold - where the C coins are upward of 80%.

 

No way to tell on the half off an image. The best way would be to ask JA if resubmitted....or BS at a show. If you are comparing it to images of other auction coins, I just don't think that an accurate way to formulate an opinion.

 

Thanks TDN, this is kind of what I suspected and simply did not know, how someone breaks up the percentages of the categories A, B, and C.

 

Best, HT

[Hard Times]

I can certainly see both sides of this. TDN uses it as an educational tool especially if you are spending a great deal of money. I've said many times having the opportunity of talk with JA is extremely helpful especially on the rejected coins. In most cases, like TDN, I kept the coin because I liked it. I did not necessarily agree with CAC's assessment I just didn't let it dictate what I like or collect.

 

But like Bill and HT, I've seen or bought coins I just don't understand. One coin in particular I sent in (20P SLQ) I never understood the rejection. On the other end there was an 1834 CBQ I bought online (without seeing it first) that had a sticker but when I received I was actually shocked it passed at CAC. I got my money back on the latter and the SLQ I still have. No big deal.

 

I don't think grading will ever be something you can precisely attribute and I roll my eyes when I hear people talk (even the TPGs) fractional decimal grading ( ). I just don't worry too much about that stuff and try use whatever system as a learning tool and try not to get all cynical about it.

 

Enjoy your coins not you labels!

 

jom

 

This and the previous posts by Catbert, Bill and others sums it up nicely. With respect to Mark and my beating a dead horse in my effort to learn and respond to other comments as a way to explore the topic, I won't post again on this thread.

 

How about them Olympics? (thumbs u

 

Best, HT

[MorganMan]

Why did you peel the sticker off, if you were cracking the slab?

 

When I said later cracked it out, I meant a few weeks later.

 

MM