Stamp, Coin, & Paper Money Show @ Westchester County Civic Center (NY)

[GoldFinger1969]

The 48th Annual Stamp, Coin, & Paper Money Show is coming to the New York suburbs this week, Friday January 17th - Sunday January 19th.

 

http://www.countycenter.biz/

 

I am going to attend and will report back...100 tables is a nice size, comparable to some of the bigger baseball card shows I used to attend 20-25 years ago....I think there's a baseball card show at the same time, don't recall the place as having 2 different areas for 2 different shows but I haven't been there in like 20 years.

 

If anybody is going and would like to hook up, I'm probably going to go on Saturday but might stop by briefly on Friday so post below and maybe we can meet.

[GoldFinger1969]

Interesting....there is no admission fee to the show (the Baseball Card show is charging $8). It's very rare to see no admission to a show; obviously, the Center has to be rented out and reimbursed for costs, labor, electricity, etc.

 

Are dealers in effect paying the costs of the show spread amongst themselves via their table fees ??

 

I guess some shows want to have no admission fee at all - even a low entry price -- because they want to maximize traffic and they think they'll make it up on sales ? Is that the thinking ?

[Nutmeg Coin]

I did a report on the last Westchester show:

 

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=904113&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Westchester

[DaveG]

Actually, it's common for coin shows to have no (or very little) admission charge.

 

In the tri-state area, the NY International has a $10 admission charge, but $5 discount coupons are readily available. The GSNA Show has a $3 admission charge, but you can join the GSNA for $10 and then get in to the show free.

 

The monthly Parsippany show is free, as is Baltimore. The ANA is still free for members.

 

About the only cost of attending the Westchester show is parking, if you park in the County Building's lot.

[GoldFinger1969]

I did a report on the last Westchester show:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=904113&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Westchester

 

Awesome, thanks for showing it....should help me since I haven't gone to a coin or other collectible show in about 20 years.

[GoldFinger1969]

Actually, it's common for coin shows to have no (or very little) admission charge.

 

Thanks, I guess the dealers/tables foot the cost, huh ? I wonder if baseball card shows still charge....20-25 years ago, they ALL did. But with business off so much, maybe they went free.

 

In the tri-state area, the NY International has a $10 admission charge, but $5 discount coupons are readily available. The GSNA Show has a $3 admission charge, but you can join the GSNA for $10 and then get in to the show free.

 

Right, I saw this...even at the Waldorf, it essentially cost nothing. I was going to go but I was told it was 99% ancient/world coins and very little U.S.

 

The monthly Parsippany show is free, as is Baltimore. The ANA is still free for members.

 

I haven't heard of the Parsippany Coin Show, will have to check it out. Thanks !

 

About the only cost of attending the Westchester show is parking, if you park in the County Building's lot.

 

Yeah, I remember trying to park for free years ago taking my 3 young cousins to a card show...I think I was successful, will report back on 2014's success or failure !

[DaveG]

I forgot to mention:

 

I used to go to the Westchester show, but haven't been in six years or so.

 

When I used to go, the "regulars" talked about how strong the show used to be and how it was slowly dying.

 

Obviously, it hasn't died yet.

 

However, when I first started going to Westchester (around 1998), they had four coin shows a year and, I think, all of them were held "upstairs" (where the Thanksgiving show is still held). Over the next several years, first one date, then another, moved to the basement, which is a much smaller room. I'm not sure if they still have four coin shows a year.

 

Also, a lot of the dealers were stamp dealers. Typically, a third of the room would be stamp dealers.

 

The show promoter works hard, and if you put your name on their mailing list you'll get postcard reminders of the show dates.

 

I'd recommend that you go on Friday or Saturday and if you go Saturday, make sure you get there early.

 

I look forward to your show report!

 

edited to add: When I used to go, some people expressed reservations about the safety of the parking lot. I parked in the section of the parking lot that was right in front of the entrance. (I think there's another lot off to the side.) I never had any concerns about safety, (except when I was crossing the street from the parking lot to the County Center!)

[GoldFinger1969]

I forgot to mention: I used to go to the Westchester show, but haven't been in six years or so.When I used to go, the "regulars" talked about how strong the show used to be and how it was slowly dying. Obviously, it hasn't died yet. However, when I first started going to Westchester (around 1998), they had four coin shows a year and, I think, all of them were held "upstairs" (where the Thanksgiving show is still held). Over the next several years, first one date, then another, moved to the basement, which is a much smaller room. I'm not sure if they still have four coin shows a year.

I don't know how interest in Coins has increased or waned, some of you can probably tell me from actual attendance, membership in numismatic/coin associations, or from your actual visual experiences at shows. But I'd be interested in some of your observations.

 

As I mentioned, I used to be big in baseball cards, and it collapsed in the mid-1990's and never came back. Attendance down 75% more-or-less nationally from the late-1980's. I suspect the same forces that decimated this industry are probably providing headwinds at least for coins: vidoe games, the internet, more demands on kids and adults time compared to the 1980's let alone the 1960's.

 

Also, a lot of the dealers were stamp dealers. Typically, a third of the room would be stamp dealers.

Oh well....

 

I'd recommend that you go on Friday or Saturday and if you go Saturday, make sure you get there early.

I plan on going on Friday and likely on Saturday too. The show lasts through Sunday....are you implying that some dealers would vamoose late Saturday and not even show on Sunday ??

 

I look forward to your show report!

Looking forward myself...hope I don't screw this up. Newbie pressures and all that !

 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

I did a report on the last Westchester show:http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=904113&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Westchester

This is THE SAME show/sponsorship as coming this weekend ?? Was the show last November, only 2 months ago ?

 

This is an annual show, would be surprised if they held it only 2 months apart in 2013 and 2014, right ?

[Nutmeg Coin]

Yes, they have a number of shows during the course of the actual year, Mark Simon of "On the Mark" is the manager.

 

If you have sharp eyes you can see him last year at the Stormville Airport Flea Market which he sometimes sets up at:

 

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=897420

[DaveG]

When I was going to the Westchester show, there were four shows a year: October, Thanksgiving weekend, January and April. (They used to put the dates of the upcoming shows in the show program, which is a nice convenience.)

 

A few years after I started attending these shows, all but the Thanksgiving show moved downstairs, which, as I mentioned, is a much smaller room. As a result, I think that only the Thanksgiving show had room for 100 tables. I think the downstairs room had space for 30 to 40 coin dealers plus a bunch of stamp dealers. Several of the coin dealers took up more than one table, so there may have been more "tables", but not as many dealers.

 

The last day of a multi-day show (often Sunday) is a very slow day for Westchester, and coin shows in general. Although I've never been to Westchester on a Sunday, I do know that when Westchester's Sunday is on the same day as the Parsippany show, most of the dealers are at Parsippany, not Westchester.

 

In my experience at Westchester, Friday was a light day for public attendance, although all the dealers were there. Saturday was usually the day for the largest public attendance (except for the Thanksgiving weekend show, when Friday was pretty heavy) and almost all the dealers were there. (Some of them may have packed up in the late afternoon, I don't know.) Sunday, many or most of the dealers were gone, I believe.

[Nutmeg Coin]

Many Fridays at noon at this show I have seen a long line waiting to get in, they don't let them in until noon.

 

Here are some images from the show today:

 

 

 

 

And on the upper floor the baseball card show was held with a number of baseball greats scheduled to do signing tomorrow:

 

 

 

 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

Nutmeg, you got a picture of me and my nephew !!!!!!

 

2nd photo, that's me looking into the glass case and my nephew at his 1st coin show. He said he enjoyed it, but I thought he was a bit bored. Liked looking up prices to double-check on his smartphone, though !!

[Nutmeg Coin]

Well, that was quite a coincidence! I went with my friend "Bill" who has been collecting since the 1960s, much longer than I have.

[GoldFinger1969]

Is it just my PC or is it because of the large size of the pictures that the posts are now elongated left-to-right and you have to scroll to see the picture in it's entirety ?

[GoldFinger1969]

Well, I attended my 1st Coin Show in over 20 years. Felt good to be back, though being employed full-time and having tons of money to spend would have made it alot better.

 

Seriously, a nice time as I attended for about 4 hours today, from 11 AM - 3 PM. Attendance definitely picked up from Friday. The attendance/sign-in gal at the front desk estimated about 125-150 people through both days. Not bad, IMO.

 

I think there were about 45 dealers on the roll-call sheet, but not sure how many made it. There were at least 30 dealers, and probably close to 100 tables. About 5-8 stamp guys there. Everyone was friendly which is very important.

 

It brought back alot of memories because with kids so into video games, the Internet, and regular school activities that are more time consuming than when I was a kid (1970's), you wonder how many will take up the hobby and if they do, if it'll be an Ebay/internet thing. Something to be said about going out, meeting actual people, and handling the coin(s) you purchase rather than looking at pictures on your PC and hoping you're making the right 4-figure (or 5-figure ! ) investment.

 

A few observations for those of you who are dealers and everyone can feel free to comment:

 

(1) Courteousnes: Everyone was very friendly. I asked a few dealers to open their glass cases 4-5 times. No objections. This is important -- I distinctly recall alot of grimmaces from baseball card dealers when I used to go regularly, esp. from dealers who suspected that I or my young cousins weren't buyers (in fact, we were).

 

(2) Paying Options: Someone commented elsewhere on these boards about not bringing cas$$$. Can't speak about FUN and other larger/regional shows, but I only saw 1 or 2 folks who handled credit cards or PayPal. And many dealers would NOT accept checks. Not saying you should have to or would want to bring $10,000 or more for a very expensive coin (you can probably make alternate arrangements) but if you are buying a few moderate-priced coins and/or bullion, you may want a few thousand dollars cash on hand.

 

(3) What's With All The MS70 New Stuff? What helped kill the baseball card hobby was a glut/surplus of new product that was overpriced. I saw alot of dealers hawking ONLY or MOSTLY the slabbed MS70/69 silver products.

 

Let me be clear: I actually bought 2 of these today, 1 as a present, 1 for myself. So I'm not against this product or it being marketed, having read a while back about some nanny-state lawsuit against the TPGs for the "First Strike" moniker and other so-called irregularities, etc.

 

But if these are being sold as investments, given the volume that is out there, and given the fact that every year you create virtually the SAME coin with a different year mint, unless bullion itself rises you may not be making money on these. These slabbed coins were marked up almost 400% from the regular coin (itself a premium to bullion). I know the markups are big for the dealers, the TPG's love them, etc. And these guys gotta make a living -- I get that. But if too many people get burned on these putting the bulk of their coin $$$ into them, it won't help coin collecting in the long run. JMHO

 

(4) Be Honest !! Saw a few Saint Gaudens and Liberty Heads that were CLEARLY overpriced by at least 20%. One guy told me he was in too high and didn't have flexibility, I appreciated his honesty. Another guy tried to talk up the coin's virtues -- hey, he was pricing it close to 3 MS points higher. If I know what I am doing (I did in this case), I'm not gonna appreciate that. If I don't know what I am doing, it's gonna leave a sour taste in my mouth and hurt the whole industry.

 

Speaking as a member of the PUBLIC up to a few months ago and now back more as a Coin Collector, let me say this: if you need to make $$$ on some sales, then sell me something that you have a nice markup or are into cheaply that won't put me behind the 8-ball from Day 1. Make your case. Give me your biz card and I'll likely contact you and reach out to buy more from you even when I am not present at a show. If I know I can trust you, then I am more likely to buy from you with some e-mailed pics or a phone call, right ?

 

OK, on to the pics.....

 

 

Hey, remember in the 1978 "Superman" movie when Lex Luthor wants to destroy California ? Remember when his henchman Otis wanted a town/city named after him ? Well, I guess he got his wish:

 

About 1/3rd of the basement was empty, which left some places to sit down. Alot of people -- dealers and public -- were on smartphones and a few had tablets.

 

[Nutmeg Coin]

Thanks for the update, GoldFinger1969. The table fees are at least around $400, so unless sellers "get lucky" with some strong buyers they usually don't do too well.

 

There were major dealers doing business today like Joe Valardi "Gardner Coin", Gainesville Coin, "On the Mark", the currency dealers, etc.. Even if they did not make much in profit, they maintain their market presence which is very important in numismatics.

[GoldFinger1969]

Thanks for the update, GoldFinger1969. The table fees are at least around $400, so unless sellers "get lucky" with some strong buyers they usually don't do too well. There were major dealers doing business today like Joe Valardi "Gardner Coin", Gainesville Coin, "On the Mark", the currency dealers, etc.. Even if they did not make much in profit, they maintain their market presence which is very important in numismatics.

 

Yes, I know...I like the personal touch, I don't mind paying a premium to see and meet people and it definitely cost$$$ in terms of table fees, travel, hotel, etc. to go to shows.

 

Some of these people go to shows/conventions every week or every other week so they must be getting lots of business from these people either at the shows or once the show ends.

 

The Gainesville Coin guys had tons of bullion gold coins, especially non-U.S. Great inventory, glad they are regulars on the circuit as I don't get down to Florida or NUM that often.

 

 

[DaveG]

Goldfinger1969,

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the show.

 

In answer to most of your questions: You'll find that coin collecting is a "relationship" type of pursuit. You'll get to know the dealers who have the kind of coins you want to buy at the prices you want to pay and they'll get to know you. As you and the dealers get to know each other, you'll find that dealers will be happy to take your checks. (Bullion is pretty much an exception, because gold and silver = cash.)

 

Don't forget that silver and gold have dropped a lot this year, so dealers are probably into their inventory at higher than current levels. Some dealers would rather hold onto their inventory than take a loss selling at today's prices. There's no way you can change their minds; you should save your effort and, instead find a dealer with whom you can deal.

 

The "discussion" about ulta-high-grade modern coins can be quite heated. Be thankful you're new to the discussion boards and have missed it.

 

 

Is it just my PC or is it because of the large size of the pictures that the posts are now elongated left-to-right and you have to scroll to see the picture in it's entirety?

 

It's not you, Nutmeg Coin needs to reduce the size of the pictures he posted in order for the posts to fit on the computer screen.

 

Also, some coin show attendees and dealers can be quite sensitive about their pictures being posted without their knowledge. I err on the side of caution and don't post such pictures.

[GoldFinger1969]

Goldfinger1969, I'm glad you enjoyed the show.In answer to most of your questions: You'll find that coin collecting is a "relationship" type of pursuit. You'll get to know the dealers who have the kind of coins you want to buy at the prices you want to pay and they'll get to know you. As you and the dealers get to know each other, you'll find that dealers will be happy to take your checks. (Bullion is pretty much an exception, because gold and silver = cash.)

 

Gotcha...for the most part I find the Coin people to be more friendly than the Baseball folks I dealt with decades ago. There was a baseball card show today, line out front for autograph signings, hope it is making a comeback .

 

Don't forget that silver and gold have dropped a lot this year, so dealers are probably into their inventory at higher than current levels. Some dealers would rather hold onto their inventory than take a loss selling at today's prices. There's no way you can change their minds; you should save your effort and, instead find a dealer with whom you can deal.

 

Understood. Never having run a business, I wondered how these guys purchase/manage inventory....if they load up and bullion (or premiums) move against you, you have a huge loss. OTOH, if you never have large inventory or are buying at market, you just realize (thin) markups. Must be a tough business unless you have a large, loyal clientele and/or guess the coin/bullion market correctly !

 

The "discussion" about ulta-high-grade modern coins can be quite heated. Be thankful you're new to the discussion boards and have missed it.

 

Yeah, I can imagine....I'm like the kid at the batting cage in the SLOW PITCH booth who stays away from the 90-MPH machine.

 

Is it just my PC or is it because of the large size of the pictures that the posts are now elongated left-to-right and you have to scroll to see the picture in it's entirety?It's not you, Nutmeg Coin needs to reduce the size of the pictures he posted in order for the posts to fit on the computer screen.

 

Maybe the Mods or the site can automatically reformat pictures or not allow JPEGs over a certain size. Re-sizing is pretty easy, even I was able to do it so anybody can !

 

Also, some coin show attendees and dealers can be quite sensitive about their pictures being posted without their knowledge. I err on the side of caution and don't post such pictures.

 

OK, good to know....I didn't take any close-ups but in the future maybe I'll learn how to 'white-out' or 'fuzzy-picture' faces to protect identities. I noted lots of dealers smiling on the FUN pictures so hopefully they realize shots of them in the background help expand the hobby.

[GoldFinger1969]

Anybody going to White Plains this Friday or Saturday ?

[jpcienkus]

Nope

[Nutmeg Coin]

I was at Joe's shop yesterday, "Gardner Coin" he'll be there and then Albany on Sunday, Parsippany is also the same day. Mark Simon was at the Danbury Show last Sunday next to Gary Parietti, Mark runs the Westchester show. He has three coin shops in the NY area.

[mommam17]

Was Vince Blume with Gary Parietti?

[Nutmeg Coin]

No, he was with his girlfriend.

[GoldFinger1969]

I was at Joe's shop yesterday, "Gardner Coin" he'll be there and then Albany on Sunday, Parsippany is also the same day. Mark Simon was at the Danbury Show last Sunday next to Gary Parietti, Mark runs the Westchester show. He has three coin shops in the NY area.

Mark has 3 coin shops ? I thought he just had the 1 in Westchester.....all the same name ?

[Nutmeg Coin]

That's what Howard from the Danbury CC said. You can ask Mark. I did some business there today. A dealer who had represented a Turkish gold coin as having .30 oz. of gold plus and NGC certified, gave me a "buyback" with my loss of $50 after I found out that it had roughly .12 oz., he said he did not have the right catalog to determine gold content. A few other transactions should work out in my favor.

 

Some dealers did no business to speak of as the customers were limited, maybe tomorrow will be different. I have many suggestions to make this a successful show. It appears to be on life support as other dealers there stated. The manager should not be the first one that most people coming into it see and ask for quotes. He could spend money on generating positive and friendly experiences for all concerned. It seems that the 21st century realities might be advanced if there was the conscious realization that the future of numismatics require it.

[GoldFinger1969]

Some dealers did no business to speak of as the customers were limited, maybe tomorrow will be different. I have many suggestions to make this a successful show. It appears to be on life support as other dealers there stated. The manager should not be the first one that most people coming into it see and ask for quotes. He could spend money on generating positive and friendly experiences for all concerned. It seems that the 21st century realities might be advanced if there was the conscious realization that the future of numismatics require it.

 

(1) Why did the dealers state it was 'on life support' ? I though business/traffic there in January was pretty good...were they referencing the Westchester Show or just shows in general ?

 

(2) What do you mean by 'the manager should not be the first one....quotes" ?

[Nutmeg Coin]

His is the first set of tables that potential sellers see as they walk in. I have had many dealers express displeasure that he is hogging business activity. I would recommend really asking dealers how they feel about business activity there. One major dealer said his experience was that the show was going downhill. My connection to this show goes back to around 1997. The show started around 1960.

[DaveG]

While I haven't been to the White Plains show in half a dozen years or so, it has been on "life support" for probably the past decade. Floor traffic is light and many dealers go elsewhere (usually Parsippany) on Sundays.

 

When I first started going to White Plains over a decade ago, of the four shows each year, I think all of them were held upstairs. Over the next couple of years, first one and then another were moved downstairs to the much smaller basement room until now, I think only the Thanksgiving show is held upstairs.

 

When I used to go to this show, when you go downstairs and enter the basement room, the first dealer you saw (and he had a big multi-table setup) was the show manager.

 

edited to add: When I used to go to this show, the Thanksgiving show was the strongest, followed by the January show and the October show. The spring show was always the weakest.

 

Parsippany is always much busier than White Plains.