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A bit special

Started by GDJMSP,

18 posts in this topic

GDJMSP

GDJMSP

Posted
Posted

Just about everyone knows I collect French coinage, in particular the Royal issues. But this is one of my favorites - the child bust design of Louis XIIII. This is the nicest example from this period I have ever seen - so I was immediately drawn to it. The 1650-I 1/2 ecu graded by NGC as MS64. That's enough right there to make it special - but there is more. Know what it is ?

 

1650-I%20half%20ECU%20ms64%20obv.jpg

 

1650-I%20half%20ECU%20ms64%20rev.jpg

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Hoot

Hoot

Posted
Posted

Another really great coin. I love the lettering on the coin. Whenever I see such lettering I always wonder about the die sinkers and the skill of the craft of the day. thumbsup2.gif

 

Hoot

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the_Thing ®

the_Thing ®

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Wow, this is spooky. The portrait on that coin is hauntingly similar to TJ's 6th Grade graduation picture from St. Mary's School for Underprivileged and Special Needs Girls. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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TJ

TJ

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That was not off topic. He said something else was special about the coin and asked us to guess. I made my guess. So there! hi.gif

What's that thing they throw in baseball? Oh yeah, STRIKES. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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JamminJ

JamminJ

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I'll just check in with a "nice coin!" for now but will try to come up with an educated guess as to the specialness tonight.

 

-JamminJ

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GDJMSP

GDJMSP

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Or the extra 'F' in the obverse legend??

 

 

893scratchchin-thumb.gif893scratchchin-thumb.gif893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

 

TRUTH

 

 

I gotta ask truth - would you have noticed if I hadn't mentioned there was something to look for ? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

You probably would have - you tend to look coins over fairly close it seems. But I ask because out of over 100 people now who have seen these pics - you and only one other noticed. Of course I didn't say there was anything to look for to the others devil.gif

 

Now I have seen errors in the legends of older world coinage before - stuff like inverted letters, a left out assayers mark - stuff like that. But even those errors are seldom seen. But this is the first time I have seen such an error in French coinage and the first time I have ever even heard of an extra letter in the legends 893whatthe.gif Maybe I just need to read more confused-smiley-013.gif

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JamminJ

JamminJ

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That's enough right there to make it special - but there is more. Know what it is ?

 

There appears to be an extra "F" in the legend. acclaim.gif

 

-JamminJ

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GDJMSP

GDJMSP

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That's enough right there to make it special - but there is more. Know what it is ?

 

There appears to be an extra "F" in the legend. acclaim.gif

 

-JamminJ

 

You're just too good JJ stooges.gif

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Hoot

Hoot

Posted
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There are definitely two "F"s, side by side and separated by a dot. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif There's also a G preceeding the first F, which makes me think there might have been some alphabetical dyslexia. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif (Doug wouldn't notice that kind of detail - he's just not a detail sorta guy.) There are also other F's that have been clandestinely disguised as "E"s. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif Notice that if you remove the lower portion of the E, it takes on a look that's suspiciously like an F. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif I therefore think it's possible that there's 6 additional F's on this variety, all hidden as E's. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif Might this be the rare "hidden F's plus extra F" variety? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Hoot

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truthteller

truthteller

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"I gotta ask truth - would you have noticed if I hadn't mentioned there was something to look for "

 

 

 

Probably not. I tend to know more about early Mexico and varieties rather than European varieties. I did recognize the 'long curl' right away, but I was not sure if that was what you were refering. So I got the Krause book out and quickly noticed that this coin had the extra 'F'.

 

TRUTH

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GDJMSP

GDJMSP

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There are definitely two "F"s, side by side and separated by a dot. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif There's also a G preceeding the first F, which makes me think there might have been some alphabetical dyslexia. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif (Doug wouldn't notice that kind of detail - he's just not a detail sorta guy.) There are also other F's that have been clandestinely disguised as "E"s. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif Notice that if you remove the lower portion of the E, it takes on a look that's suspiciously like an F. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif I therefore think it's possible that there's 6 additional F's on this variety, all hidden as E's. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif Might this be the rare "hidden F's plus extra F" variety? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Hoot

 

sign-funnypost.gif

 

foreheadslap.gif Only an advanced nickel collector could detect such things. I will submit to your superior powers of observation. hail.gifhail.gif

 

Just as soon as I wear this large mallet out makepoint.gifgrin.gif

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GDJMSP

GDJMSP

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To take a break from the kidding around ( and I do enjoy it wink.gif ) I have been having some conversations about this coin with some " serious " collectors in Europe. They just aint like some of you guys grin.gif

 

Anyway - here is what I have found out. There is at least 1 other example ( so far ) of this variety known. But as of yet there is no explanation for the extra F. It has been theorized that it was used as a privy mark for Francois Malbay - the Limoges Mint Director of the time. If so - this is the only time such a thing has happened - that the initial of the director's name was used.

 

The privy mark on the reverse of the coin - a solid dot - is for Jean Warrin, the Engraver General of the time. The privy mark on the obverse - a tear drop - is for the local engraver, name unknown.

 

This is another interesting tidbit - there is some disagreement regarding the obverse privy mark. Apparently, Gadoury list it as being the privy mark for Malbay and describes it as duck or swan. But the " she duckling " privy mark, according to Krause, was used as the privy mark for Etienne Pinchault, the Limoges Mint Director 1619-22. And Krause also states that the privy mark for Malbay is a crucifix.

 

It seems I am constantly finding that the reference resources for older European coinage are in direct conflict with one another. They seldom agree on anything it seems.

 

So which reference is a collector to believe ???? confused-smiley-013.gif

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truthteller

truthteller

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Posted

Sometimes the opinions of respected coin researchers are mere speculation based on research with other types of coinage. Unfortunately, few, if any, records for specific mint events, for such early coinage, survive and must be gleaned from later records and procedures. I rarely accept the opinon as fact for such matters. Although some theories are plausible, they are still theories.

 

 

TRUTH

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