1851 New Orleans coinage dies

[disme]

For those who own New Orleans coins dated 1851 the following list of dies, made out by the

coiner of that mint , will perhaps be of interest:

 

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[DaveG]

It's interesting that Philly sent so many silver dollar dies, given the limited demand for those coins in NO.

 

 

disme/denga,

 

Do you know how Philly determined how many dies of which denominations they sent to branch mints like NO during this time period?

[disme]

It's interesting that Philly sent so many silver dollar dies, given the limited demand for those coins in NO.

 

disme/denga,

 

Do you know how Philly determined how many dies of which denominations they sent to branch mints like NO during this time period?

As a general rule the number of dies sent was what the branch mint requested. Sometimes the branch

underestimated what would be needed for the entire year and additional dies were sent as required.

 

[DaveG]

It would be very interesting to have copies of the correspondence!

 

Is NARA the only place you've found copies? Philadelphia or College Park?

 

I know that the Mint Annual Reports from the last third of the 19th century (or so) contained the number of dies produced for the branch mints. The reports didn't distinguish between head and tail dies, but at least it reported the denominations.

 

 

edited to add: I just saw your answer as to location ATS. Thanks for that!

[disme]

It would be very interesting to have copies of the correspondence!

 

Is NARA the only place you've found copies? Philadelphia or College Park?

 

I know that the Mint Annual Reports from the last third of the 19th century (or so) contained the number of dies produced for the branch mints. The reports didn't distinguish between head and tail dies, but at least it reported the denominations.

 

edited to add: I just saw your answer as to location ATS. Thanks for that!

The correspondence requesting dies for the branch mints is scattered through several

different files and a mass of unrelated papers. The data for dies are in both Philadelphia

and College Park though some records might still be at the downtown DC archives building.

 

Prior to 1873 requests for dies went directly to the mint director in Philadelphia but after that

time they sometimes went to the Philadelphia superintendent but also to the director, now in DC.

[Conder101]

It's interesting that Philly sent so many silver dollar dies, given the limited demand for those coins in NO.

All you can tell for sure from this is that they sent four dollar obvs. We don't know how many of the rev dies are leftover from 1846. All 11 reverse dies were held over for the future and the 4 unused obv dies were destroyed.

[DaveG]

Conder101,

 

Actually, it was the four head dies that I was referring to as "so many."

 

 

Given that:

 

A. It was 1851 and, as a result, the ocean of gold coming out of California had driven up the price of silver, such that much less silver was being deposited at the Mints. (Total silver deposited at the New Orleans Mint in 1850 was $1.3 million; total deposited in 1851 was $196,561 (and $118,694 in 1852). Granted, the Mint might not have known, in 1850, how much silver to expect in 1851, but I presume they expected the amount of silver deposited to shrink.)

 

B. The New Orleans Mint had only struck silver dollars in 1846 (59,000) and 1850 (40,000) and I would be surprised to learn that four head dies were necessary to strike that small amount. (QDB, in his Silver Dollar Encyclopedia implies the use of one obverse die in 1846 and identifies the use of one or possibly two obverse dies in 1850.)

 

C. 1851 was the peak year for gold deposits at New Orleans - Total gold deposited in 1850 was $4.6 million; in 1851 was $8.9 million and in 1852 was $3.9 million. As a result, 1851 was the peak year for double eagle mintage at New Orleans - 315,000. Since the New Orleans Mint had only one press capable of striking silver dollars and/or double eagles, I suppose that the NO Mint staff would have expected that press to be too busy to strike many (or any) silver dollars in 1851.

 

However, upon reviewing QDB's Silver Dollar Encyclopedia, I see that he (or, more likely, disme/denga) reports that while he doesn't know how many dies were prepared for 1846-O dollars, four pairs of dies were shipped in both 1847 and 1848, one obverse die in 1849, an unknown number for 1850, four obverse dies in 1851 and two in 1852.

 

Therefore, although I would have expected one or two obverse dies, perhaps four obverse dies was a standard number - in case of breakage, etc.

[disme]

It's interesting that Philly sent so many silver dollar dies, given the limited demand for those coins in NO.

All you can tell for sure from this is that they sent four dollar obvs. We don't know how many of the rev dies are leftover from 1846. All 11 reverse dies were held over for the future and the 4 unused obv dies were destroyed.

 

The list of dies furnished by Chief Engraver James B. Longacre for all mints in 1851

lists only four obverse silver dollar dies and no reverses sent to New Orleans. The

reverses were all therefore held over from an earlier year.