El Cazador Shipwreck Coins

[Trevor Lewis Matthias]

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Or

 

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Considering the history behind these specific treasure finds, you would think they would be more popular with the American people.

 

 

If these coins are slabbed and graded by NGC why cant they be valued in the collection manager, when listing?

 

Any other Cazador collectors out there?

 

Thoughts?

[brg5658]

See my reply at the other thread you posted here: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6197210

[Conder101]

The probably can't be valued because the grading is almost certainly details grading (problem coin) and the pricing lists are for problem free coins.

[physics-fan3.14]

"Shipwreck Effect" coins are nothing more than a marketing scheme. Yeah, its cool that they were sunken treasure, and I'm willing to grant that there is a historical interest in them. But they are damaged coins, and deserve damaged coin prices. The ridiculous premiums for shipwreck coins are beyond what I am willing to pay, and thus do not (and probably will not) own any.

[World Colonial]

All of these coins I have seen are dated 1783 which would make them the Portrait coinage. I collect pillars only but to my knowledge, most collectors of "treasure coinage" by a lopsided majority prefer the cobs which are most of them anyway.

 

NGC HOLDERS these coins but I would not call them "graded"; they are encapsulated. I'm not sure what quality they typically come in but all of those I have seen have been at best mid-ciculated and all of them look corroded and not particularly attractive.

 

This is the reason why I do not see that these coins are worth more than modest premiums over non-treasure specimens which today is not much unless some of them are much scarcer than I believe them to be. I do not collect Portraits, but when comparing comporable coins (like an 8R from both series) I think of them as being more common than practically every pillar except maybe the 1754 8R.

[Conder101]

The historical interest is what justifies a premium, but it should be a premium over the damaged coin value, and the premiums they ask are as you say ridiculous. If you have a coin where the value for an undamaged piece is $200, a coin with the damage level of the typical sea salvage might be $50, and the historical interest premium might bring it up to say $125. That might be reasonable. But they seem to want to start with the undamaged value and then and on a silly premium level from there. I would think that even with the historical interest premium they should rarely exceed the value of an undamaged non-historical piece.

[World Colonial]

The premium you mentioned is modest in absolute terms but in actuality, none of these "treasure coins" have any added history as far as I am concerned. I know that they do to those who buy them and presumably to others but I do not see that simply because a coin was on a ship that sunk that it has any more significance at all, much less that such a coin should sell for a significant premium for it.

 

This is in contrast to (for example only), Jewish Revolt coinage struck from 66-70 which is universally acknowledged as significant because it is considered to have contributed to the spreading of Christian and Jewish culture and associated with the destruction of the second temple in Jerusalem. I would rank these coins as either first or near it of any coins ever struck.

 

There are very few coins that are like this example I use in terms of their actual historicity. I see two historical contexts for coinage, the history represented by the coin and the history of the coin itself. The example I gave is of the first and these "treasure coins" I consider of the second.

 

 

[the_Thing ®]

I at one time had a somewhat decent shipwreck collection of coins. All Spanish, all reales. Atocha, Santa Margarita, Jupiter Beach Wreck, numerous 1715 examples and can tell you the one coin I never owned was from the El Cazador. Most if not all were purchased and sold off in a QVC type fashion with a write up and history. They are almost as plentyful of U.S. pennies in my opinion. Never had the desire to own one. Shipwreck effect? It means they have been cleaned. There is no such thing as a "shipwreck effect". You can clean it right or you can do it wrong. When you do it wrong, you have the "Shipwreck effect". I always appreciated my coins that still had a bit of coral encrusation on them myself.