Not just another French coin !

[GDJMSP]

A few days ago I ran across this coin on ebay - found it quite by accident really. It grabbed my attention like nothing ever has. I was immediately infatuated - obsessed even - with this coin. I couldn't quit looking at it - I just kept going back to the

page again and again. I knew I couldn't really afford such a coin - but I also knew that I somehow just had to have it.

 

But letting my head control my heart was difficult - so Ienlisted the aid of some of my coin pals - I asked them, pleaded with them, to talk me out of buying this coin.

And did they help ? Quite the contrary - the majority urged me onward telling me to buy the coin. Big help they were

 

Then a particular friend, in his ever ubiquitous manner, pushed me over the edge. I have stepped over the precipice and made the commitment to purchase the coin. Before long it will be in my hands and become the piece de resistance of my collection ! And now that I have done so - I don't know whether to thank him profusely - or get a big stick and beat him about the head and shoulders ! I'm still workin on resolving that one

 

And now to the coin - you don't find these too often - and you certainly don't find them in this condition. I consider this a once in a lifetime find.

 

You have seen me post pics of French coins before - but this one is special. It is literally dripping with history. This is the very first franc - known as the Franc à cheval. King John II ( John the Good ) of France was captured in 1356 and

held for ransom by the British during the Hundred years War. In 1360 a treaty was signed which ended the Hundred Years War and this coin was created and struck to pay

this ransom. The first payment of this ransom was to be 600,000 of these coins with additional payments of 400,000 per year. They were struck specifically for this purpose.

They got their name because the word franc at the time meant "free" and they were struck to free the French king. King John was freed, and until 1364 King John continued to make the ransom payments. But he could not meet the payment in 1364 and he was returned to captivity, there to remain until his death in April of 1365.

 

Can you imagine where this coin has been during

the past 700 years ?

 

obverse

 

reverse

 

slab

[truthteller]

That is one groovey coin with a fabulous history. Did these every 'circulate' as normal coinage?

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[GDJMSP]

To be honest I am not sure that the coins did circulate in France. But I assume they must have even if to a limited degree. Charles V - the son of John, issued coins very similar to this design using his own image. He also issued coins of the same value ( livre tournois, which was worth twenty sols ) known as the franc a' pied.

[satootoko]

Gaaaasssssp!

 

Beautiful coin, great condition, fabulous history, and authenticated by NGC!

[TomB]

That is a wonderful coin with a terrific history attached to it. Thank you for sharing it.

 

I have a quick question. If these coins were struck specifically for the ransom that was paid from 1360-1364, why does the NGC slab give a date range of 1346-1384?

[JamminJ]

Not just another French coin !

 

You're right about that, its Supercoin! One of the nicest middle age coins I've seen especially in gold. I didn't even know NGC holdered coins that old.

 

But letting my head control my heart was difficult - so Ienlisted the aid of some of my coin pals - I asked them, pleaded with them, to talk me out of buying this coin.

Coin people can be like that, god love em.

 

 

Nice story and a great coin, enjoy owning it!

 

-JamminJ

[Hoot]

Fantastic coin and history Doug. Thanks for the post and I hope that you "recover" without a single regret! Oh, and I'll repeat TomB's question, as the date range on the NGC holder struck me as odd...

 

Also, is there any provenance that goes with this fine coin?

 

Hoot

[spy88]

Tom,

 

Not to step on GDJMSPs thread, but I would imagine that the coin doesn't have a date on it, therefore it could have been minted in any of the years the ransom was known to have been paid.

 

And that really is a beautiful coin with a fantastic history! So well preserved for so long a time is what I find amazing. Would make a great movie to follow its ownership from mint to present!

 

David

[GDJMSP]

That is a wonderful coin with a terrific history attached to it. Thank you for sharing it.

 

I have a quick question. If these coins were struck specifically for the ransom that was paid from 1360-1364, why does the NGC slab give a date range of 1346-1384?

 

 

That is a question I have asked myself as well. I think I know the explanation - but I sure would like it if someone from NGC would chime in here and either confirm or deny my reasoning.

 

It is known that in Jan. 1360 the original ransom demand of - some say 4 million some say 5 million gold ecu's - was cut to 3 million. Two thirds of this amount was paid by Oct. 1360 and John was allowed to return home leaving 3 sons and others as hostages of the English crown.

 

What is not known is when these coins were actually struck. John had been held captive since 1356 and one must assume that the coins could not have been struck before that date. We also know that it was in 1364 that John returned to captivity in England to uphold his honor because one of his sons escaped and refused to return. It was also this year that France could no longer meet the annual ransome demand of 400,000 gold ecu's. John died in England, April of that year. So one might - stress might - reasonably assume that after that date no further coins were struck. Especially when one takes into account that John's son, now King Charles V, began minting these coins bearing his own image.

 

Thus far it would seem the date of minting can be narrowed down to between 1356 & 1364. However - at this time in history it was the French counts who are credited with the minting of coinage under the auspices of the French Crown. This particular example was struck in Ghent, Flanders under the authority of the Count Louis de Male, who ruled this province from 1346 - 1384 - thus the date range provided on the slab.

 

Of course the coin is not dated as coins from this period were not. And were it any other coin, I could easily understand the reasoning for the date range on the slab. But with this coin - the date can indeed be narrowed down to a much shorter time period because of known historical occurences.

 

So how'd I do NGC ?

 

 

edit - At this time I am not aware of the provenance for this coin. I am working on finding what if any there is. Any help would be greatly appreciated

[GDJMSP]

Ever since I first saw this coin I have been doing a great deal of searching for information regarding it. If nothing else - I have learned I need more books. And I have learned that I was mistaken about this coin's attribution. This is an easy mistake to make for one who does not take great care when trying to read medieval Latin. Of course just trying to make out the legends on a coin such as this based on a pic is difficult.

 

Regarding the dates on the slab - I have found out just today that my reasoning should be sound. For according to Delmonte these coins were struck in Ghent between June 26, 1361 and May 11, 1364. However - as I previously stated I was mistaken regarding its attribution. NGC, however, was not. I just wasn't knowledgeable enough to realize it.

 

The image on the horse is not John II as I believed - it is instead the Count Louis de Male himself. It seems the count copied the design and had some of these coins struck bearing his own image. The coin is, I believe, still considered to be a franc a' cheval. But it does have differences.

 

For example - the legends of the obverse read -

 

LVDOVIC ': DEI - GRA: COmES: I - DNS: FLADRIE

 

Louis, by the grace of God, count and lord of Flanders

 

 

as compared to -

 

 

IOhAnnES: DEI -:GRACIA: - FRAnCORV: REX

 

Jean, by the grace of God, king of the Francs

 

The legends of the reverse, by the way are indentical.

 

As I said - reading the legends from a pic can be difficult. But the real give away is the design of the horse's cape. On the coins bearing John II the cape has the fleur de lis. With the coins bearing de Male the horse's cape has lions. The pics of my coin definitely show lions.

 

Now I am not unhappy with the mistakes I have made. Quite the contrary - I am overjoyed. For not only have I learned a great deal about the franc a' cheval - I have also learned this. Of the two coins, the total mintage of Ghent for the coins bearing John II was 1,403,000. The total mintage of the coins bearing de Male was 81,000. I rather like the second number

 

I would still like very much to hear what NGC has to say about this coin.

[Hoot]

Great stuff Doug. Thanks again for sharing such a rich history. Mark.

[DonHeath]

Just a super story and coin. Thanks.