Is this 1872 Shield Nickel a DDO (FS-101 / F-121)?

[dooly]

Hi all back on with a slabbed shield Which has been given 1872 DDO 5C VP-006 (FS-101 / F-121) by a grading company but i am questioning the variety designation .. what do you think ?

 

Picture of 121 from E Fletchers book

 

 

Sorry about the pictures but there through the slab

[skippy]

Buzz. The direction of the doubling isn't even correct for F-121.

 

This is F-111.

 

This is a typical TPG attribution error for shield nickels: Find something vaguely similar in Cherrypickers' Guide and use that as the attribution.

 

In fairness to the TPGs who blew this one and to others who make the same errors, CPG and Fletcher don't contain enough photos for accurate attribution. But this one should have been easily caught as wrong given the CPG photo they did have.

[dooly]

Thanks Howard thought the date was way off .. do you think it would be worth sending it back for a new label ?

[skippy]

You didn't say who holdered it.

 

It doesn't look like a PCGS holder, and PCGS wouldn't attribute F-111 anyway. But they would probably put in a holder with a wrong FS number on it.

 

If it's an NGC holder, then F-111 is not listed among the varieties NGC is willing to attribute.

http://www.ngccoin.com/VPSubCategory.aspx?subid=32&category=nickels&cointype=shield-nickels

 

The chances of your getting it in a correctly attributed holder by any TPG are small even if the TPG attributes F-111. TPGs just don't do shield nickel varieties well.

 

So, to answer your question, IMO it's a waste of time and money to try to get this corrected. Stick a little label on it with the correct attribution. I have a number of misattributed slabs in my collection.

[dooly]

Something is wrong ?? i have just started to look at the shield nickels VP's on the website and was looking this one up .. mine is graded as 1868 18/18 of 67 VP-020 (mine is a 67 reverse)

 

when i looked at VP-020 i got this "1868 DDO REV OF 68 5C VP-020"

 

http://www.ngccoin.com/VPVariety.aspx?coinid=4708

 

? am i looking in the wrong place or something

[skippy]

Yes, something is wrong. 1868 VP-020 is listed as crossing to F-108, which is an r68 DDO clearly visible at the annulet, and no RPD.

 

Your coin has no doubling visible at the annulet. It is, however, a nice RPD.

 

By working backwards from the RPD, I was able to determine that your coin is F-18 (S1-7013), which in addition to the RPD does actually have a DDO visible on the motto. It was not apparent on first look at your photo, but when I knew what to look for, it was there.

 

So if yours is slabbed VP-020, it's not even close to attributed correctly.

 

Nice photo, BTW.

[dooly]

Yes, something is wrong. 1868 VP-020 is listed as crossing to F-108, which is an r68 DDO clearly visible at the annulet, and no RPD.

 

Your coin has no doubling visible at the annulet. It is, however, a nice RPD.

 

By working backwards from the RPD, I was able to determine that your coin is F-18 (S1-7013), which in addition to the RPD does actually have a DDO visible on the motto. It was not apparent on first look at your photo, but when I knew what to look for, it was there.

 

So if yours is slabbed VP-020, it's not even close to attributed correctly.

 

Nice photo, BTW.

 

thanks Howard .. again .. thought i was going mad .. as you say Not even near

 

well that was a waste of submission costs ..

 

[skippy]

Dooly,

 

I have shield nickel collector friends who have submitted varieties for attribution and put the correct attribution on the submission form, only to have the coin come back with the wrong variety on the holder.

 

ANACS is the only slabber that historically has come close on shield nickel varieties, and they don't do 1868 or 1872 DDOs correctly (again, not really their fault - they don't have the right documentation).

 

You could send the coin back to NGC and tell them you want it fixed at no charge and see what they say. NGC does attribute this variety as VP-014, so there is at least a chance they might fix it.

 

OTOH, if you're really disgusted with the coin, it's one I don't have in my set. :-)

 

 

[dooly]

Cheers may do that .. could post it on the NGC bit on the forum and see what they say about it ..

 

"OTOH, if you're really disgusted with the coin, it's one I don't have in my set. :-)"

 

you know what i am like for them what do you think your chances are of you prizing it from my grubby hands never know i may find a gradeable one

[Conder101]

How many times have I said you should never trust the attributions assigned by the TPG's? Especially to top two. If you want variety attributions your best bet is either ANACS or SEGS.

[dooly]

Great news .. contacted NGC and no problem .. just ship it back and we will sort it out .. 5 stars I say

[skippy]

In general, I agree your best shot for a shield nickel variety attribution is with ANACS or SEGS. But neither of those two services will do either 1868 or 1872 DDOs accurately - they simply don't have the tool that would enable them to do so. (Though they could have it if they were interested...)

 

[dooly]

I agree .. sometimes you just have to ask

[Conder101]

In general, I agree your best shot for a shield nickel variety attribution is with ANACS or SEGS. But neither of those two services will do either 1868 or 1872 DDOs accurately

Neither do PCGS or NGC so they are all in the same boat then. NGC said ship it back and they will try again. That's fine, but you are still out the postage and insurance both ways again. And what happens if it isn't right this time?

[skippy]

And what happens if it isn't right this time?

 

It's the new slabbing game. Instead of "submit until you get the grade you want," it's "submit until you get the attribution you want."

[dooly]