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Image Evolution

Started by Hard Times,

44 posts in this topic

Hard Times

Hard Times

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Posted

Here is a new image of my latest NEWP using CFL's. When I started shooting, I went strictly by Mark Goodman's book and he seemed to favor halogens. Halogens give great images, but you get hot spots (very white streaks) where the lights are strongly reflecting of the surfaces into the lens as a result of the fact that there is a heck of alot of light in halogens. There are advantages to having strong lights and Mark is the master of taking advantage of them in his technique. I have had Hard Times (shrug) with various kinds of coins with halogens because of this as I am far from the abilities of Sir Goodman. Bob Campbell (Robec) and Todd Pollock (Blue CC Photos) both use CFL's and have given me advice on them. I ultimately bought the ones Bob recommended, and I have bugged Todd many times at shows with many questions about imaging. So below is am image using the CFL's and I am slowly switching over as they seem to be doing a good job for me. There still may be times I go back to halogens, but for now working on technique with the CFL's. These are not 'juiced' images this is exactly what this bust dime looks like when titled in the light to bring out the rich toning. Not perfect, but I am getting close...... So I m thinkin' CFL's are a good thing, thanks to Bob and Todd for advice. BTW, I bought this lovely bust dime on ebay, no kidding.

 

Best, HT

 

1832dPCGSXF45CAC.jpg

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messydesk

messydesk

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I've been using CFLs for years. The big advantage they have is they don't get hot. I can move, manipulate, filter, and diffuse them without burning myself or starting a fire.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Here is a comparison using halogens, CFL's, and CFL's with tilt into the light. There are subtle color differences between the two light sources, that could be a white balance issue, now I use a gray card and calibrate white balance with the card. But notice two things - the hot/bright spots using the halogens, and for CFL's with tilt,notice the fields are better 'lit' up. Of problem tho', the tilted image is slight out of focus to the south. That can be rectified using an Architectural lens which I am now working with. So more evolution to come. A numismatic friend told me he likes the halogen image the best, but I am liking the CFL tilted image the best for richness of surface texture.

 

1847-C25dCFLtest.jpg

 

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brg5658

brg5658

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When is the font evolution? ;)

 

In all seriousness, Hard_Times, you always have stellar images. I used to go to your eBay store just to admire your coin images. :) Superb as always, and really really nice bust dime! (thumbs u

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JIM F.

JIM F.

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Here is a comparison using halogens, CFL's, and CFL's with tilt into the light. There are subtle color differences between the two light sources, that could be a white balance issue, now I use a gray card and calibrate white balance with the card. But notice two things - the hot/bright spots using the halogens, and for CFL's with tilt,notice the fields are better 'lit' up. Of problem tho', the tilted image is slight out of focus to the south. That can be rectified using an Architectural lens which I am now working with. So more evolution to come. A numismatic friend told me he likes the halogen image the best, but I am liking the CFL tilted image the best for richness of surface texture.

 

1847-C25dCFLtest.jpg

 

I like the halogen pic the best. But I don't even know what CFL stands for..

 

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jesbroken

jesbroken

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I am certainly no one to listen to regarding photography, but my opinion of the three pics you posted of the gold coin is fervently in favor of the halogen(just in this instance). The coin exudes richness of color whereas the other two seem washed out and not brilliantly displayed as the halogen photo appears to me. JMO

Jim

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Oldtrader3

Oldtrader3

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I have a question? I am really no body's coin photography expert and am curious? I am trying to remember my old photography books which I do not have anymore to refer to. If I remember correctly, halogen light causes hot spots because it is coherent light not scattered (atactic) and because it has more lumen power per watt? This would effectively expand the zone dynamics by a couple stops or so at the white end.

 

Would mean that in order to use this higher lumen count light source, you have to be scattering (guass filter) this light source or be depolarising it? By doing this, would you get the high Kelvin temperature light source spectrum without the burn out spots from zone expansion? Just curious?

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RWB

RWB

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What you have not mentioned is the diameter of each light source in relation to the coin.

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RWB

RWB

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Light source diameter includes the reflector. Also, you have to include the distance of the light from the coin to determine if changing a light source actually does what you're thinking it will do.

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Here is another NEWP, still continuing to use the CFL's. Three lights at 45, 180, and, and 315, this configuration lights up the complete surfaces with no dark spots. This one was in the recent ANA auction by SB. It is part of the David Davis collection, which was nearly complete for die varieties. Mr. Davis was one of 5 authors of the book - Early United States Dimes - 1796-1837. These days if you can find a copy of this valuable book for under $150, grab it. It has documented all of the die varieties, 1 more has been found since it was published in 1984. That is how thorough they were.

 

Best, HT

 

1827dJR6PCGSAU55.jpg

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Here is a NEWP I just shot. It is a challenge to get the relief on the devices just right. Worn coins can look flat if the lighting is wrong. Using 3 lights for this one washed out the whole facial area of Miss Liberty. The stacks images of this coin have relief jumping out where the cheek of Miss Liberty is puffed out and the curls stand out much more strongly than the image here. I suspect they used 1 light from the SE. In this image I use 2 lights. I can adjust them to bring the jaw line out a touch more on Miss Liberty, but I think when viewing this example in hand the visualness (if that is a word) of the relief of the cheek is pretty close to what you see and the curls, and the eagle on the reverse are bang on. The jaw line is subtle but still there. So worn coins can be a bit tricky and something to remember when imaging them. It is all in the lighting......

 

Best, HT

 

1827dJR12PCGSVF25.jpg

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Here is another one, same font, trying to reduce the size of the green bean, rich texture and color captured with 3 CFL's...

 

I must admit tho' I do like this font - handwriting, gives it a more relaxed image, sometimes more formal fonts are too well, formal looking to me. Font suggestions folks?

 

Best, HT

 

1830dJR4NGCAU53CAC.jpg

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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One thing that is impressive from Goodman's book is that he shows several coins, taken by different light types and is able to reproduce pretty much identical images of each example with each light type. Mark shows in reality that the type of light does not matter if you have done everything else right.

 

One key to this is getting the white balance right. My images were never exact in color until I followed Todd Pollock's recommendation of using a gray card to calibrate white balance. Now I do this, and try to before each session. Here are two images of the same coin using PAR 30 75W flood halogens (~2850K), and CFL's recommended by Bob Campbell (ALZO 27W 5500K CFL). Hard to tell apart. Placement of the lights is also important and requires experimentation. Of interesting note, the CFL's did not pick up some scratches on the slab as much as the halogens did. This likely reflects subtle differences in light placement (I confess I did not pay attention to this in the two different shooting sessions), but I need to do more experiments with this.

 

Best, HT

 

1830dJR6NGCMS63CFLTest_zps3789da05.jpg

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Hard Times

Hard Times

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Here is an image of a NEWP. I took around 20 shots of each side before I got it just right. This was an image that was educational for me because it was shot by one of the very best professionals for listing on a dealer website. So I had a chance to see how this photographer creates his images by trying to reproduce his image of this coin. I know he uses a tilt and shift lens. Why? When you tilt a coin into the light at an angle to the camera body, it can reveal richer colors, luster, and the variable relief is more apparent and the features on the surfaces come out more defined. The tilted coin though can be out of focus over parts of the coin with a normal macro lens without the tilt function because the coin is now at an angle to the camera body and to a normal macro lens. This is what I used for the quarter eagle example above, so the focus is not perfect. The advantage of the t/s lens is that you tilt the lens with a manual control to bring the whole coin into focus. I recommend reading the section on this in Mark Goodman's book Numismatic Photography if the technique is of interest. The technique works for a variety of types of coins to bring out toning, luster, and to distribute the light source more evenly.

 

The macro t/s lenses are popular for a variety of imaging:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilt%E2%80%93shift_photography

 

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/11/16/beautiful-examples-of-tilt-shift-photography/

 

The shift function of these lenses is not useful for coin imaging, it is the tilt function that brings the whole coin in focus that allows for great images for some coins.

 

This quarter imaged without tilting into the light and instead shot flat on, or perpendicular to the camera body and macro lens on the copy stand, comes out with less rich color revealed and while nice, doesn't do as much justice to the beauty of this coin. This is shown in the first image below of the obverse shot with and without tilt into the light but otherwise with the same camera settings and light conditions (same lights, etc.). When tilted into the lights, you can see the nice golden orange and subtle pastel blue toning on the surfaces much better. The relief comes out stronger, the surface luster is more apparent (even on this AU53 coin), and as Goodman notes. So I prefer the tilted images better and both the obverse and reverse are shown in the second image.

 

Best, HT

 

1850-OQuarterPCGSAU50test_zps26f3269a.jpg

 

1850-OQuarterPCGSAU50_zpsf4ea9ed2.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Flatwoods

Flatwoods

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Since I love this dime, I remembered it from the (Post something crusty thread)

I like the color better in the new images. I have found that different metals give me trouble. I like copper and bronze with halogens and silver with CFL's or regular incandescents. I am sure my meager photography skills (and equipment) are a big factor.

Great pics by the way!!!

 

1830dJR4NGCAU53CAC.jpg

 

 

1830dimeJR4NGCAU53CAC.jpg

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